Holy Bull #3 on sire list

skeenan · Postby **skeenan** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:00 am

Guess a lot of people are jumping on the Giacomo bandwagon... :wink:

kimberley mine · Postby **kimberley mine** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:31 am

He also has Estimraar a G3 winner in Dubai (big purses) and a two-time G2 winner in Woke Up Dreamin. That'll help too.

FOS · Postby **FOS** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:02 am

hi skeenan...hi kimberly mine

Holy Bull has proven he's capable of getting some VERY good racehorses (examples: champion 2-yo colt Macho Uno and Ky Derby winner Giacomo)...but it's probably fair to say he's never really been, nor do I expect him to become, an industry darling.

He's got his supporters and detractors...but it's clear he can certainly come up with a good one every now and then...and I suggest his stud fee has been set at a realistic level (to reflect that).

It'll be interesting to see what it is for 2006. He might be worthy of a gentle bump...but I suggest that cool heads should prevail when setting it.

Respectfully

kimberley mine · Postby **kimberley mine** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:55 am

FOS, I don't disagree with you.

I would be very interested to see what would happen if he got a couple more Stop the Music mares. The reverse cross of Cure the Blues (w/o any linebreeding) worked once--would it work again?

skeenan · Postby **skeenan** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:08 pm

FOS, I agree... I just noted it, as I thought it interesting to see how he's moved up since May.

Out of curiosity (as it's before my interest in pedigrees), did Our Emblem move up in the sire lists after War Emblem?

FOS · Postby **FOS** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:22 pm

hi Skeenan

I am confident that Our Emblem moved up significantly on the earnings lists subsequent to each of War Emblem's major accomplishments. Since then though, Our Emblem might best be described as 'dead as a door-nail'...OUCH.

Taylor Made...WinStar and those that bred to Our Emblem (especially at his jacked-up stud fee) subsequent to his son War Emblem's brilliant 3-yo campaign, probably have very little good to say about him (maybe an understatement).

Regardless...Our Emblem has proven that he can come up with a Top-Class race horse...and he might do it again...but his appeal seems to be badly tarnished. Scrutinize some of his stats...including his two-year-old numbers...OUCH.

Respectfully

Intrinsic Worth · Postby **Intrinsic Worth** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:41 am

I wouldn't compare Holy Bull to Our Emblem. Did Our Emblem even have a stakes winner last year? I put Holy Bull in the ranks of Maria's Mon, a good sire for people who want a racehorse who occassionally gets a top class G1 winner.

el camino · Postby **el camino** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:36 am

Holy Bull would still be good value at $25,000. Besides the horses already mentioned he has Saintliness and Aspen Tree. A couple classy fillies this year. As far as Our Emblem, his crops were relatively small while in Maryland. I think once his 2nd chance KY crops hit he will have some good runners again. It was only 2002 when War Emblem won the derby and 2003 breeding season when he moved back to KY so his "first Crop" back so to speak won't hit the track until next year. I would suggest that this would be a good year to breed to him. At a greatly reduced priced of course. What was he really going for last year, anybody know?

skeenan · Postby **skeenan** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:16 am

Intrinsic Worth wrote:I wouldn't compare Holy Bull to Our Emblem. Did Our Emblem even have a stakes winner last year? I put Holy Bull in the ranks of Maria's Mon, a good sire for people who want a racehorse who occassionally gets a top class G1 winner.

I wasn't trying to compare the two stallion to stallion... only curious to know if War Emblem's Derby win boosted interest in Our Emblem...

Pete · Postby **Pete** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:29 am

Hi Skeenan,

War Emblem absolutely boosted Our Emblem - right back to KY. He's been very quiet since his 2002. Taylor Made has been trying to spin him ever since he was acquired, but he's not been a commercial favorite.

El Camino, I agree that if there's a time to go to Our Emblem, this would be the year (2006). If you're selling a yearling, you would have three KY crops in front of you. In many ways he's like a freshman sire again.

As far as his fee last year - it was listed at $10,000, but I offered a cup of coffee and they agreed, then reneged when they found out it was cold - reconsidered and were about to take it when they found out that it was halk drunk. The moral is...give them a fresh cup of coffee. :lol:

.

Actually, I had heard that they were doing deals for multiple mares.

Regards,

Pete

Pete · Postby **Pete** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:39 am

Hi all,

A breeding note on Our Emblem.

Outcross the prospective foal and have as much Hyperion as you can get, especially through SA lines.

All 7 of his SWs are outcrosses, and all 6 US SWs are by mares with at least Hyperion 6x6.

Regards,

Pete

skeenan · Postby **skeenan** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:19 am

I'm facinated with the marketing end of things... I like looking at the sales catalogues/final sales figures to get a sense of who's "in". I noticed in the Fasig/Tipton July sale that there's one Mongoose colt (he's on my breeding recommendations list) out of a Holy Bull mare.

Now, all you pedigree experts could examine the mating & tell me if it's good on paper or not. It might be stellar, it might be average. The mare seems like a nice mare to me, but what do I know! :roll:

But I'm willing to bet that *particular* colt is in there to help boost Mongoose's sales figures because Holy Bull is in the pedigree. It's the ol' adage, "make hay while the sun shines"... IMO...