Tejano Run and Sea of Secrets on the Move
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Tejano Run and Sea of Secrets on the Move
Tejano Run is headed to Canada and Sea of Secrets will go to Ballena Vista in California. Thoughts? Comments? Tejano Run always struck me as an underated breed to race sire. Sea of Secrets was a nice looking horse when I saw him at Walmac, but he didn't "wow" me.
hi austique
Sea of Secrets would probably better serve the breed if he were used as a teaser (and maybe allowed to cover some problem and/or aged mares).
Even a registered thoroughbred that's still intact, and used as a teaser, might come up with a runner of consequence...something that Sea of Secrets has not yet done despite standing full-time at a serious Lexington stallion facility where he sired several crops of racing age.
All Things Considered...I find it difficult to imagine that many might actually pay hard earned money to breed to this guy (and invest the time, effort and money to raise the offspring)...even at a minimal stud fee.
I couldn't recommend him at any price...OUCH.
Respectfully
Sea of Secrets would probably better serve the breed if he were used as a teaser (and maybe allowed to cover some problem and/or aged mares).
Even a registered thoroughbred that's still intact, and used as a teaser, might come up with a runner of consequence...something that Sea of Secrets has not yet done despite standing full-time at a serious Lexington stallion facility where he sired several crops of racing age.
All Things Considered...I find it difficult to imagine that many might actually pay hard earned money to breed to this guy (and invest the time, effort and money to raise the offspring)...even at a minimal stud fee.
I couldn't recommend him at any price...OUCH.
Respectfully
The thing that bothered me was he was so light-boned, but then hey, I booked a mare to Tumblebrutus this year, so my opinion means nada hi austique
Your opinions do mean something...they are honest...but I'm not sure what they are based on. Consider this...you referenced "fertility" and "light boned" when speaking of Sea of Secrets, but you seem to question your choice of Tumblebrutus (you wrote "...so my opinion means nada.") without being specific as to why you selected him as a mate for your mare in 2005. Certainly "fertility" and "light boned" are two very important (and possibly disqualifying) factors...but I suggest that All Things must be Considered in the stallion evaluation process. Furthermore...your comments seem to suggest a lack of confidence in your evaluation process.
I suggest that on your next visit to a stallion destination (Lexington for example), that you make the appropriate appointments and spend a full day or two traveling from stallion facility to stallion facility. View as many stallions as possible, keep your focus on the effort and it might be wise to take notes (and possibly some photos) for yourself. Look hard and scrutinize...and don't be afraid to ask questions (examples: book size...habits in the breeding shed...fertility...libido...etc etc etc...what do the foals look like etc)
I expect that by the end of your exercise you will find that you have benefitted greatly.
I suggest that the thoroughbred game has become more difficult to succeed at (financially anyway) and that the quality of the individual is EXTREMELY important...maybe moreso than ever before. Try offering a small...offset...lightboned...back at the knee and poorly made...poorly proportioned...lightweight yearling privately or at auction...OUCH.
Obviously that may be a worst case scenario...but you might agree that the complete opposite is often a best case. A good-sized...extremely correct...good-boned...good legged and beautifully made...exceptionally well-proportioned...powerhouse yearling.
Which one would you rather bid on or sink your dollars into? Certainly no one knows for sure which one/s will be the standout racehorse/s...but if the sales ring is on your agenda (with the racetrack being the ultimate destination)...I suggest it would be wise to attempt to breed the best individual you can. A horse that will conjur a positive response from prospective buyers and racing aficionados alike.
Certainly for a stallion that's already had several crops to the races...there is valuable information to also evaluate (as in the case of Sea of Secrets...a stallion that you mentioned...and I could not recommend).
austique...it's easy to burn lots of money in the thoroughbred game. It's also easy to rationalize many circumstances. When in doubt though...I suggest, go for the stallion who offers what you believe is the best opportunity to help you accomplish what you have set out to do.
I don't expect that Sea of Secrets or Tumblebrutus offer much...although arguably anything is possible.
If Walmac-Lex is a farm you enjoy...take a look at Zavata. He might lack in certain areas (stamina etc)...but WOW...what a grand and powerhouse individual. Take a look at the highly successful young sire (at Walmac also)...Successful Appeal...and understand what he has accomplished with little opportunity. I submit he's an EXTREMELY athletic-looking and beautifully balanced guy...and exceptional value at $25k.
If you visit Walmac-South (Hartley-DeRenzo in Ocala) take a look at Full Mandate...WOW...a grand looking horse. It would not surprise me if he came up with a serious classic contender from his first crop. Furthermore...the word seems to be out...that many of his foals are VERY good (or even better). He could be a young stallion with a HUGE upside...and worthy of serious consideration.
Again...I recommend that you look at (and scrutinize) many many stallions...and I further suggest that All Things must be Considered. I expect the exercise will bear fruit.
Respectfully
Your opinions do mean something...they are honest...but I'm not sure what they are based on. Consider this...you referenced "fertility" and "light boned" when speaking of Sea of Secrets, but you seem to question your choice of Tumblebrutus (you wrote "...so my opinion means nada.") without being specific as to why you selected him as a mate for your mare in 2005. Certainly "fertility" and "light boned" are two very important (and possibly disqualifying) factors...but I suggest that All Things must be Considered in the stallion evaluation process. Furthermore...your comments seem to suggest a lack of confidence in your evaluation process.
I suggest that on your next visit to a stallion destination (Lexington for example), that you make the appropriate appointments and spend a full day or two traveling from stallion facility to stallion facility. View as many stallions as possible, keep your focus on the effort and it might be wise to take notes (and possibly some photos) for yourself. Look hard and scrutinize...and don't be afraid to ask questions (examples: book size...habits in the breeding shed...fertility...libido...etc etc etc...what do the foals look like etc)
I expect that by the end of your exercise you will find that you have benefitted greatly.
I suggest that the thoroughbred game has become more difficult to succeed at (financially anyway) and that the quality of the individual is EXTREMELY important...maybe moreso than ever before. Try offering a small...offset...lightboned...back at the knee and poorly made...poorly proportioned...lightweight yearling privately or at auction...OUCH.
Obviously that may be a worst case scenario...but you might agree that the complete opposite is often a best case. A good-sized...extremely correct...good-boned...good legged and beautifully made...exceptionally well-proportioned...powerhouse yearling.
Which one would you rather bid on or sink your dollars into? Certainly no one knows for sure which one/s will be the standout racehorse/s...but if the sales ring is on your agenda (with the racetrack being the ultimate destination)...I suggest it would be wise to attempt to breed the best individual you can. A horse that will conjur a positive response from prospective buyers and racing aficionados alike.
Certainly for a stallion that's already had several crops to the races...there is valuable information to also evaluate (as in the case of Sea of Secrets...a stallion that you mentioned...and I could not recommend).
austique...it's easy to burn lots of money in the thoroughbred game. It's also easy to rationalize many circumstances. When in doubt though...I suggest, go for the stallion who offers what you believe is the best opportunity to help you accomplish what you have set out to do.
I don't expect that Sea of Secrets or Tumblebrutus offer much...although arguably anything is possible.
If Walmac-Lex is a farm you enjoy...take a look at Zavata. He might lack in certain areas (stamina etc)...but WOW...what a grand and powerhouse individual. Take a look at the highly successful young sire (at Walmac also)...Successful Appeal...and understand what he has accomplished with little opportunity. I submit he's an EXTREMELY athletic-looking and beautifully balanced guy...and exceptional value at $25k.
If you visit Walmac-South (Hartley-DeRenzo in Ocala) take a look at Full Mandate...WOW...a grand looking horse. It would not surprise me if he came up with a serious classic contender from his first crop. Furthermore...the word seems to be out...that many of his foals are VERY good (or even better). He could be a young stallion with a HUGE upside...and worthy of serious consideration.
Again...I recommend that you look at (and scrutinize) many many stallions...and I further suggest that All Things must be Considered. I expect the exercise will bear fruit.
Respectfully
Last edited by FOS on Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
Actually I didn't "look" at Sea of Secrets when I went to Walmac. He was being brought in when I was there and I didn't recognize him at first as he was much more fine than I had expected and I was just joking about his fertility.
My Tumblebrutus issue was a case of a rookie mistake. First year in KY. Stallion I had booked to moved and Walmac offered me a deal to any stallion on the farm. I booked to him without looking at him. My mare ended up having some issues and Tumblebrutus was a raging idiot in the breeding shed, so I got no little Brutus.
I actually loved Successful Appeal and Zavata when I saw them, but don't you think Zavata is a huge risk given that he is by Phone Trick? That's the only thing that worries me about him.
My Tumblebrutus issue was a case of a rookie mistake. First year in KY. Stallion I had booked to moved and Walmac offered me a deal to any stallion on the farm. I booked to him without looking at him. My mare ended up having some issues and Tumblebrutus was a raging idiot in the breeding shed, so I got no little Brutus.
I actually loved Successful Appeal and Zavata when I saw them, but don't you think Zavata is a huge risk given that he is by Phone Trick? That's the only thing that worries me about him.
hi austique
I tried to be even more specific so I added some comments above.
As for Zavata...I expect he'll probably be a source of two-year-olds and maybe sprinters...but he is a grand looking powerhouse.
I just felt it might be a valuable exercise for you to view and scrutinize many many stallions.
Who knows...you might be just fine with Tumblebrutus...but you obviously NOW recognize certain areas of concern re: him.
Respectfully
I tried to be even more specific so I added some comments above.
As for Zavata...I expect he'll probably be a source of two-year-olds and maybe sprinters...but he is a grand looking powerhouse.
I just felt it might be a valuable exercise for you to view and scrutinize many many stallions.
Who knows...you might be just fine with Tumblebrutus...but you obviously NOW recognize certain areas of concern re: him.
Respectfully
While Phone Trick sires a good looking, speedy horse, his sons have not done as well. Caller Id and Mazel Trick are now in PA, Favorite Trick is in NM, Confide and Semoran are in OK. Confide was at Walmac wasn't he and has done poorly. Semoran gets 30% of his mares in foal so he won't have a chance.
I would pass on Zavata for that reason.
On the other hand, I thought Tejano Run did a good job siring some good race horses and was truly underrated.
I would pass on Zavata for that reason.
On the other hand, I thought Tejano Run did a good job siring some good race horses and was truly underrated.
hi austique...hi aurora
I just felt it might be a valuable exercise for you (austique) to view and scrutinize many many stallions...including a grand and powerful horse like Zavata (at Walmac-Lex)...who is a stark comparison to Tumblebrutus (who was also at Walmac-Lex). I was NOT referring to the merits of his sire Phone Trick...but simply to his physical appearance and structure...WOW.
I wrote "If Walmac-Lex is a farm you enjoy...take a look at Zavata. He might lack in certain areas (stamina etc)...but WOW...what a grand and powerhouse individual."
austique...you wrote "I actually loved Successful Appeal and Zavata when I saw them, but don't you think Zavata is a huge risk given that he is by Phone Trick? That's the only thing that worries me about him."
Fair question...clearly Phone Trick has limited success as a sire of sires, but I suggest that Zavata is physically NOT cut from the same cloth as a horse like Favorite Trick (also by Phone Trick) for example. And let's not forget...Intidab (also by Phone Trick) sired a very good horse (despite extremely limited opportunity) in Greater Good (a classic hopeful 3-yo of 2005).
Zavata was without a doubt one of the best looking (powerhouse) two-year-olds in training that I've ever seen. He is a grand and powerful horse worth a long and hard look...and I am more than confident that if you have the ability to breed horses that are all but clones of him you will earn some serious money in the thoroughbred game. Will he make it at stud...who knows for sure...but I believe he is a VERY special individual...regardless who he's by. He was very mature...very early...and VERY VERY fast...and obviously loved to sprint. That's who he was...and he looks exactly what you might expect such a horse should look like...WOW. He is one grand horse...and could be a sleeper.
I strongly recommend (as you probably figured out)...look at the individuals and be extremely selective. Pedigree is certainly important...but ultimately you might find that All Things Considered...an exceptional individual with less pedigree will probably serve you better than an ordinary (or less than ordinary) individual with a big pedigree. Unfortunately that kind are not much more than a dime a dozen these days...not unlike Tumblebrutus.
Rarely will you find the super-star individual with the super-star pedigree...if and when you do be prepared to spend many millions. That is the kind that Full Mandate was...a knockout on the end of a leadshank...and a $3.2mil yearling...WOW. I suggest...take a look at him...and his first foals...many appear to be very good (or even better).
He might prove to be a bargain at $5k live...he is an eyeful (was a stakes-winner to boot...and won at Keeneland, Churchill, Fairgrounds and Arlington) and might prove to be a special sire.
Respectfully
I just felt it might be a valuable exercise for you (austique) to view and scrutinize many many stallions...including a grand and powerful horse like Zavata (at Walmac-Lex)...who is a stark comparison to Tumblebrutus (who was also at Walmac-Lex). I was NOT referring to the merits of his sire Phone Trick...but simply to his physical appearance and structure...WOW.
I wrote "If Walmac-Lex is a farm you enjoy...take a look at Zavata. He might lack in certain areas (stamina etc)...but WOW...what a grand and powerhouse individual."
austique...you wrote "I actually loved Successful Appeal and Zavata when I saw them, but don't you think Zavata is a huge risk given that he is by Phone Trick? That's the only thing that worries me about him."
Fair question...clearly Phone Trick has limited success as a sire of sires, but I suggest that Zavata is physically NOT cut from the same cloth as a horse like Favorite Trick (also by Phone Trick) for example. And let's not forget...Intidab (also by Phone Trick) sired a very good horse (despite extremely limited opportunity) in Greater Good (a classic hopeful 3-yo of 2005).
Zavata was without a doubt one of the best looking (powerhouse) two-year-olds in training that I've ever seen. He is a grand and powerful horse worth a long and hard look...and I am more than confident that if you have the ability to breed horses that are all but clones of him you will earn some serious money in the thoroughbred game. Will he make it at stud...who knows for sure...but I believe he is a VERY special individual...regardless who he's by. He was very mature...very early...and VERY VERY fast...and obviously loved to sprint. That's who he was...and he looks exactly what you might expect such a horse should look like...WOW. He is one grand horse...and could be a sleeper.
I strongly recommend (as you probably figured out)...look at the individuals and be extremely selective. Pedigree is certainly important...but ultimately you might find that All Things Considered...an exceptional individual with less pedigree will probably serve you better than an ordinary (or less than ordinary) individual with a big pedigree. Unfortunately that kind are not much more than a dime a dozen these days...not unlike Tumblebrutus.
Rarely will you find the super-star individual with the super-star pedigree...if and when you do be prepared to spend many millions. That is the kind that Full Mandate was...a knockout on the end of a leadshank...and a $3.2mil yearling...WOW. I suggest...take a look at him...and his first foals...many appear to be very good (or even better).
He might prove to be a bargain at $5k live...he is an eyeful (was a stakes-winner to boot...and won at Keeneland, Churchill, Fairgrounds and Arlington) and might prove to be a special sire.
Respectfully
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FOS wrote:hi austique...hi aurora
Fair question...clearly Phone Trick has limited success as a sire of sires, but I suggest that Zavata is physically NOT cut from the same cloth as a horse like Favorite Trick (also by Phone Trick) for example. And let's not forget...Intidab (also by Phone Trick) sired a very good horse (despite extremely limited opportunity) in Greater Good (a classic hopeful 3-yo of 2005).
What Zavata, Intidab, and my own Phone Trick son, Rocking Trick have in common is a MUCH stronger dam line..
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
