2005 Parade of Stallions
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
2005 Parade of Stallions
The 2005 Parade of Stallions is scheduled for 1:00pm at the OBS grounds near Ocala, FL, tomorrow, with viewing of individual stallions slated to start at 10:00am. Don't know exactly which farms will be represented but I understand that several good-sized outfits do attend.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
Forgive my ignorance, but who's "Thug?" Be happy to oblige as long as I know who he is!
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
Mahubah wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but who's "Thug?" Be happy to oblige as long as I know who he is!
Quiet little Kris S. son standing at Graystone Manor down in Reddick (wherever the heck that is).
7 crops of only 20 foals (only 17 of racing age) but has managed to eek out 76% starters and 47% winners (62% winners/starters). No blacktype to speak of, but I'm always interested in something that can get what I consider blue collar racehorse numbers.
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rudydee
- Maiden Special Weight
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:57 am
- Location: Hollywood California
Parade of Stallion request
I have a pretty good mental picture of what Indian Ocean looks like from FOS' description. Another stallion I am interested in is Wildcat Heir-standing at Cloverleaf. Could you let me know what you think of Wildcat Heir if he is there? Thanks.
Well, I wasn't able to get a picture of Thug, Sam; as you suspected, he wasn't there. I did get some nice pictures of most of the other stallions there, provided that you make allowances for the fact that I'm not exactly a professional photographer. I also took some notes on those stallions I had the chance to inspect reasonably closely, so here goes:
Indian Express -- looked fairly correct, perhaps a touch light on bone.
B. L.'s Appeal -- blocky sprinter type with a shortish head, sort of QH-like. Base narrow with somewhat offset knees and mild toe-out in front. Nice hind leg with a lot of power; fair shoulder; decent pasterns and feet. Pretty nice disposition, too; he was out almost the entire viewing period (3 hrs!) and was pretty patient about the whole thing.
Wildcat Heir -- fairly correct, nice muscling down forearms and gaskins, nice shoulder; pasterns looked just a touch longer than I would like.
Alke -- Good bone, fairly correct, walked nicely.
Great Pyramid (Ire) -- Attractive head and neck, well set on shoulder. Somewhat downhill build with a little less bone than I would like and pasterns seeming a tad long for their slope. Hind feet appeared to toe in slightly.
Act of Duty -- Powerful, short-coupled sprinter type. Good bone but seemed to have a rather upright shoulder and appeared to toe out slightly on the right fore.
Indian Ocean -- Beautifully balanced with a very nice hind leg and good shoulder; very attractive head and neck. Looked to be a touch offset in the left knee. Kept trying to nip at his handler; not an easy boy to handle.
Parents Reward -- Very good looking, well balanced, powerfully made.
Alajwad -- Beautiful horse with a particularly attractive head and neck; strongly recalls photos of his maternal grandsire Affirmed.
True Direction -- Short coupled with a markedly sloped rump and a fair shoulder. I would have liked to see a touch more bone; feet seemed on the small side. Looked to be offset in both knees, appeared to toe out slightly on the left fore.
Alex's Pal -- Filled out very handsomely from when I saw him in January, pretty correct and quite attractive. Feet now look in much better shape. A big boy for a Valid Appeal-line horse; he's easily the 16.2 they advertise him at to judge by comparison to my own height.
Double Honor -- Nice looking horse with nothing that particularly caught my eye for good or ill.
Irish Road -- Handsome gray, rangier in type than most of the other stallions, might have liked to see a little shorter cannons.
Freefourinternet -- Generally solid conformation, good hindquarter, toes out a little at the walk with both forefeet.
Western Pride -- Seemed pretty nice; looked a touch offset in his left knee.
Supah Blitz -- Didn't see as much of him as I would have liked but noticed his shoulder right away; it's a duplicate of his daddy Mecke's, very good.
Hadrian's Wall -- Powerful quarters and decent balance but had rather long cannons and appeared sickle-hocked; a little lighter on bone than I would have liked. Appeared to toe out on both hind feet.
Black Mambo -- OK overall appearance but perhaps a trifle short-necked for length of body. Feet looked small and topline was not as attractive as some of the other stallions. Appeared to toe out in back but may have been just the way he was standing as I did not get to see him move.
Repent -- Very nice, well balanced, appeared to be somewhat offset in both knees, toed out slightly on the left fore.
Sarava -- Nice but workmanlike appearance, good balance, looked OK in front; comes well in with right hind foot at walk.
Halifax -- Tall, good shoulder, somewhat narrow, slightly over at knee, good head and neck.
Honor Glide -- Nice, well balanced, a touch light-boned, Northern Dancer type.
Other stallions that I didn't get notes on include Mongoose, Unbridled's Image, Smooth Jazz, Cashel Castle, and Marciano.
Please keep in mind that I don't consider myself a conformation expert; these are impressions only. If you're considering breeding to any of these stallions, I'd strongly advise going to inspect your choice personally before booking.
Rudydee, if you'll PM me with your e-mail address, I can try to send you a picture of Wildcat Heir.
Indian Express -- looked fairly correct, perhaps a touch light on bone.
B. L.'s Appeal -- blocky sprinter type with a shortish head, sort of QH-like. Base narrow with somewhat offset knees and mild toe-out in front. Nice hind leg with a lot of power; fair shoulder; decent pasterns and feet. Pretty nice disposition, too; he was out almost the entire viewing period (3 hrs!) and was pretty patient about the whole thing.
Wildcat Heir -- fairly correct, nice muscling down forearms and gaskins, nice shoulder; pasterns looked just a touch longer than I would like.
Alke -- Good bone, fairly correct, walked nicely.
Great Pyramid (Ire) -- Attractive head and neck, well set on shoulder. Somewhat downhill build with a little less bone than I would like and pasterns seeming a tad long for their slope. Hind feet appeared to toe in slightly.
Act of Duty -- Powerful, short-coupled sprinter type. Good bone but seemed to have a rather upright shoulder and appeared to toe out slightly on the right fore.
Indian Ocean -- Beautifully balanced with a very nice hind leg and good shoulder; very attractive head and neck. Looked to be a touch offset in the left knee. Kept trying to nip at his handler; not an easy boy to handle.
Parents Reward -- Very good looking, well balanced, powerfully made.
Alajwad -- Beautiful horse with a particularly attractive head and neck; strongly recalls photos of his maternal grandsire Affirmed.
True Direction -- Short coupled with a markedly sloped rump and a fair shoulder. I would have liked to see a touch more bone; feet seemed on the small side. Looked to be offset in both knees, appeared to toe out slightly on the left fore.
Alex's Pal -- Filled out very handsomely from when I saw him in January, pretty correct and quite attractive. Feet now look in much better shape. A big boy for a Valid Appeal-line horse; he's easily the 16.2 they advertise him at to judge by comparison to my own height.
Double Honor -- Nice looking horse with nothing that particularly caught my eye for good or ill.
Irish Road -- Handsome gray, rangier in type than most of the other stallions, might have liked to see a little shorter cannons.
Freefourinternet -- Generally solid conformation, good hindquarter, toes out a little at the walk with both forefeet.
Western Pride -- Seemed pretty nice; looked a touch offset in his left knee.
Supah Blitz -- Didn't see as much of him as I would have liked but noticed his shoulder right away; it's a duplicate of his daddy Mecke's, very good.
Hadrian's Wall -- Powerful quarters and decent balance but had rather long cannons and appeared sickle-hocked; a little lighter on bone than I would have liked. Appeared to toe out on both hind feet.
Black Mambo -- OK overall appearance but perhaps a trifle short-necked for length of body. Feet looked small and topline was not as attractive as some of the other stallions. Appeared to toe out in back but may have been just the way he was standing as I did not get to see him move.
Repent -- Very nice, well balanced, appeared to be somewhat offset in both knees, toed out slightly on the left fore.
Sarava -- Nice but workmanlike appearance, good balance, looked OK in front; comes well in with right hind foot at walk.
Halifax -- Tall, good shoulder, somewhat narrow, slightly over at knee, good head and neck.
Honor Glide -- Nice, well balanced, a touch light-boned, Northern Dancer type.
Other stallions that I didn't get notes on include Mongoose, Unbridled's Image, Smooth Jazz, Cashel Castle, and Marciano.
Please keep in mind that I don't consider myself a conformation expert; these are impressions only. If you're considering breeding to any of these stallions, I'd strongly advise going to inspect your choice personally before booking.
Rudydee, if you'll PM me with your e-mail address, I can try to send you a picture of Wildcat Heir.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
hi Mahubah
Respectfully...if I may add some comments re: a couple of the young stallions you referenced.
BL's Appeal...seems to get many with club feet...he's been bred mostly to the owner's mares.
Wildcat Heir...He's very much a Forest Wildcat...he looks nothing like his grandsire (Storm Cat) or a Pentelicus (his dam's sire). Wildcat Heir looks to be very tall...has bone leaning toward light, might benefit (as a sire) if he had a stronger pastern, has a slight frame, is smooth muscled, does not carry much flesh and is not very wide. He's nicely balanced, is a very good walker...and his neck sets nicely into his shoulder. He seems the kind that would get VERY lightly made foals.
Alke...beware his dam's sire...Crow...OUCH!!! Enough said.
Act of Duty...Strongly-made but unathletic looking. Did not win.
Indian Ocean...He's a head turner...dead-on correct...tall...with good bone and strong pasterns. A very good walker...excellent alignment. Beautifully proportioned and balanced with an EXCEPTIONAL front end, neck and headset. Seems to offer a lot.
Alajwad...Very tall and leggy...smooth-muscled but carries good flesh. Does not look at all like his sire Storm Cat. He looks more like his dam's sire Affirmed (who was a great racehorse and a VERY good broodmare sire). I'd guess Alajwad will probably get mostly turf-types.
True Direction...Tall...adequate bone and strongly made...funny thru the ankles and pasterns.
Alex's Pal...Very tall, not very broad and more smoothly made than most Valid Expectations (that I've seen). Long cannons and adequate (certainly not an abundance) of bone. Does not look at all like his 1/2 brother Successful Appeal.
Double Honor...Just another sire...that doesn't seem to have much going for him in the way of really good ones.
Irish Road...A head and body that is much more warmblood-like than racy thoroughbred...regardless, he's a beautiful shade of gray (but I don't expect that will help his future offspring run any faster).
Western Pride...Very tall and looks to be fully mature...has an upright shoulder and long cannons. His quarters are less than I might have expected on such a fully mature horse, especially considering the weight he now carries and what his grandsire, Gone West, can get. Looks like there's a lot of his dam's sire (Proud Birdie) and his second dam's sire (Ack Ack) in him.
Black Mambo...Soft looking...other than that he doesn't make much of an impression (as far as I'm concerned).
Repent...Tall...back at the knee...extremely upright...no depth to his very weak quarters. From my perspective...probably deserves an x on the page...HORRIBLE.
Sarava...a plain but nice, strong, small horse.
Mongoose...Good-sized...ruggedly handsome and strong. Sits down a bit in his pasterns. Needs a permanent home. Started in Ky, and now at his second Florida home.
Unbridled's Image...Why?
Best to you.
Respectfully
Respectfully...if I may add some comments re: a couple of the young stallions you referenced.
BL's Appeal...seems to get many with club feet...he's been bred mostly to the owner's mares.
Wildcat Heir...He's very much a Forest Wildcat...he looks nothing like his grandsire (Storm Cat) or a Pentelicus (his dam's sire). Wildcat Heir looks to be very tall...has bone leaning toward light, might benefit (as a sire) if he had a stronger pastern, has a slight frame, is smooth muscled, does not carry much flesh and is not very wide. He's nicely balanced, is a very good walker...and his neck sets nicely into his shoulder. He seems the kind that would get VERY lightly made foals.
Alke...beware his dam's sire...Crow...OUCH!!! Enough said.
Act of Duty...Strongly-made but unathletic looking. Did not win.
Indian Ocean...He's a head turner...dead-on correct...tall...with good bone and strong pasterns. A very good walker...excellent alignment. Beautifully proportioned and balanced with an EXCEPTIONAL front end, neck and headset. Seems to offer a lot.
Alajwad...Very tall and leggy...smooth-muscled but carries good flesh. Does not look at all like his sire Storm Cat. He looks more like his dam's sire Affirmed (who was a great racehorse and a VERY good broodmare sire). I'd guess Alajwad will probably get mostly turf-types.
True Direction...Tall...adequate bone and strongly made...funny thru the ankles and pasterns.
Alex's Pal...Very tall, not very broad and more smoothly made than most Valid Expectations (that I've seen). Long cannons and adequate (certainly not an abundance) of bone. Does not look at all like his 1/2 brother Successful Appeal.
Double Honor...Just another sire...that doesn't seem to have much going for him in the way of really good ones.
Irish Road...A head and body that is much more warmblood-like than racy thoroughbred...regardless, he's a beautiful shade of gray (but I don't expect that will help his future offspring run any faster).
Western Pride...Very tall and looks to be fully mature...has an upright shoulder and long cannons. His quarters are less than I might have expected on such a fully mature horse, especially considering the weight he now carries and what his grandsire, Gone West, can get. Looks like there's a lot of his dam's sire (Proud Birdie) and his second dam's sire (Ack Ack) in him.
Black Mambo...Soft looking...other than that he doesn't make much of an impression (as far as I'm concerned).
Repent...Tall...back at the knee...extremely upright...no depth to his very weak quarters. From my perspective...probably deserves an x on the page...HORRIBLE.
Sarava...a plain but nice, strong, small horse.
Mongoose...Good-sized...ruggedly handsome and strong. Sits down a bit in his pasterns. Needs a permanent home. Started in Ky, and now at his second Florida home.
Unbridled's Image...Why?
Best to you.
Respectfully
Regarding Repent -- he was medium sized. Measured against my own height, he certainly didn't look any bigger than the 16.1 he lists at, if anything a little smaller. I took a look back over my photo after reading your post and am not sure where "upright" fits in because his pasterns aren't and his shoulder was no worse than most of the others there. Knees I can't vouch for because I didn't catch him with his forelegs square.
Guess this just goes to show how differently two different people can view the same horse.
Guess this just goes to show how differently two different people can view the same horse.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
I may be the only dissenting vote on Indian Ocean, but his female family scares me to death. From the APR:
INDIAN HALO, 1995, Halo- West Indies by Gone West.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1998 Cousin George,B,c,Kentucky Jazz 1 1 0 0 1 750 (
2000 MEGAN'S HALO,B,f,Jules 3 23 7 1 4 115,207 ( 97)
At 3 Won Suffolk Downs Oaks (O) (35,000), Highland Happening S. (O)
(35,000)
2001 Indian Outlaw,Dk B/,c,Stormy Atlantic 1 1 0 0 0 175
2002 Indian Ocean,B,c,Stormy Atlantic
2003 Indian Moccasin,B,f,Stormy Atlantic Unraced
2nd dam
WEST INDIES, 1991, Gone West- Oceana by Northern Dancer.
1995 Indian Halo,B,f,Halo 2 3 0 0 1 2,745
1996 Lil Sophie,B,f,Green Dancer Unraced
1997 Andrew B Good,Dkbbr,c,Future Storm Unraced
1998 Handy,Dkbbr,c,Private Terms Unraced
1999 O Linda,Dkbbr,f,Southern Halo Unraced
2000 Shah Of Shahs,B,c,King Of Kings (Ire) 2 5 0 0 0
2001 Ganny Girl,Dkbbr,f,Sahm 1 7 0 2 2 16,130
2003 Unnamed,f,Royal Anthem (Live Foal)
2004 Unnamed,c,Aljabr (Pending)
3rd dam
OCEANA, 1983, Northern Dancer- South Ocean by New Providence.
1987 Mermaid's Purse,Ch,f,Devil's Bag 1 4 1 0 0 13,560
1988 Water Angel,B,f,Halo Unraced
1989 Barren
1990 Maritime Traveler,Ch,c,Secretariat 2 5 0 0 0
1991 West Indies,B,f,Gone West Unraced
1992 Colony Bay,B,f,Pleasant Colony 1 2 0 0 0 140
1993 Dead Foal
1994 =Biwa Shu Yu (Jpn),B,c,Meadowlake
IN JAPAN 2 11 0 0 0 0
1995 =Ballerina Tutu (Jpn),B,f,Brian's Time
IN JAPAN 1 5 0 0 2 25,386
1998 =BIWA SHINSEIKI (JPN),B,c,Forty Niner
IN JAPAN 4 30 9 7 6 2,797,781
DP = 15-3-15-0-3 DI = 2.43 CD = 0.75 AWD = 7.72
At 4 2nd Tokyo Daishoten (JPN)
At 5 Won Kakitsubata Kinen (JPN), Tochigi Marronnier Cup (JPN), 2nd
February S. (JPN), Teio Sho (JPN), Mercury Cup (JPN), Sakurambo Kinen
(JPN), 3rd Zen-Nippon Thoroughbred Cup (JPN), Tokyo Daishoten (JPN)
At 6 3rd Heian S. (JPN), Mercury Cup (JPN), Breeders' Gold Cup (JPN),
Kakitsubata Kinen (JPN)
2001 Oceanette,Ch,f,Pancho Villa Unraced
I don't breed my mares to produce a pretty foal, I actually race my horses. Indian Ocean only ran 5 times before injury stopped him, which is not an abberation of his pedigree, he's a product of this pedigree. I can't afford to raise a foal who has very little shot of even making the races.
Now Alke, who FOS dismissed due to one name in his pedigree in a spot where other leading sires have had names like Poker, Bunty's Flight, Admirals Voyage, Sunrise Flight and current top sires with Jet Diplomacy, *Hawaii, Magesterial, Silver Saber, and Call the Witness has a much stronger vein running thru his pedigree. His page reads:
PASAMPSI, 1983, Crow (Fr)- Princess Matilda by Hasty Road.
1990 Bermuda Gal,Dkbbr,f,Al Nasr (Fr) 4 27 1 1 2 14,279
1991 Patto,B,c,Dixieland Band
IN UNITED KINGDOM 2 8 4 0 1 42,544
1992 DEBIT MY ACCOUNT,Ch,f,Classic Account 4 34 11 4 5 448,641 (100) 8.94
At 4 Won My Charmer S. -L (60,000), 2nd Valnor Breeders' Cup S. -L
(90,000), 3rd Falls City Handicap -G3 (276,000)
At 5 Won Likely Exchange S. -L (50,000), Wintergreen S. -L (50,000), 3rd
Fairway Fun S. -L (74,250)
At 6 Won Marigold S. -L (60,000), Likely Exchange S. -L (59,000), 3rd
Wintergreen S. (O) (47,000)
1993 Sesquipedalian,Dkbbr,c,Slew O' Gold 4 35 2 1 4 13,916
1994 Manikato,B,c,Clever Trick
IN UNITED KINGDOM 9 65 1 6 3 21,774
1995 Amnesty,Ch,c,Fly So Free 2 4 2 0 1 47,810 ( 95)
1997 Debt Free,Ch,f,Fly So Free 2 8 1 0 0 3,249
1998 RED N'GOLD,Ch,f,Tabasco Cat 4 33 5 6 4 294,212 (103)
At 4 Won Pippin S. (O) (50,000), 2nd Oaklawn Breeders' Cup S. -G3
(200,000), Bayakoa S. -L (75,000), 3rd Turfway Breeders' Cup S. -G3
(200,000), H. B. P. A. Handicap -L (100,000)
At 5 Won Pippin S. (O) (50,000), 2nd Oaklawn Breeders' Cup S. -G3
(200,000), 3rd Bayakoa S. (O) (48,000)
2000 ALKE,Dk B/,c,Grand Slam 3 9 5 3 0 219,385 (112)
At 2 2nd Iroquois S. -G3 (114,200)
At 3 2nd Southwest S. -L (75,000)
At 4 Won Deputy Minister Handicap -G3 (100,000), 2nd Dubai Golden Shaheen
-G1 (UAE)
2001 Marjorie C,Ch,f,Charismatic Unraced
2002 Debit Or Credit,Ch,f,Cat Thief 1 1 0 0 0 150 ( 33)
2nd dam
PRINCESS MATILDA, 1973, Hasty Road- Queen Maud by Nearctic.
1978 Vicar Of Bray,Ch,c,King's Bishop 8 110 10 12 10
1979 Not Covered Previous Year
1980 Tom's Pick,B,c,Bold Commander 2 7 0 1 0 4,147
1981 Princess Jamily,Ch,f,Broadway Forli 2 14 1 2 2 10,060
1982 PINK RICE,B,f,Circle Home 5 51 7 10 9 109,117 7
At 3 2nd Mademoiselle S. (O) (25,000)
At 4 Won Pucker Up Handicap (R) (O) (15,000)
1983 Pasampsi,Ch,f,Crow (Fr) 4 42 9 7 6 194,457 4.67
At 3 3rd Heirloom S. (O) (40,000)
1984 Barren
1985 Leading Man,B,c,Mr. Leader 3 31 3 1 1 26,989 ( 73)
3rd dam
QUEEN MAUD, 1968, Nearctic- *Vent Neurf by =Matador (Gb).
1973 Princess Matilda,Ch,f,Hasty Road 1 8 2 2 1 11,220
1974 Barren
1975 LADY LONSDALE,Ch,f,King's Bishop 4 50 13 13 6 307,468 8.91
At 3 2nd Bison City S. (25,000)
At 4 Won Bed O'roses H. -G3 (50,000), 2nd Imperatice H. (50,000), Regret
H. (25,000)
At 5 Won Vagrancy H. -G3 (50,000), 2nd Correction H. -G3 (50,000), Distaff
H. -G3 (50,000), Shuvee H. -G2 (50,000), Nellie Morse H. (30,000),
3rd Twilight Tear S. (50,000), Shrewsbury H. (30,000)
1976 Unnamed,f,Victoria Park
1977 Slipped
1978 Slipped
1979 Slipped Twins
1980 Lord Bexon,Ch,c,Lord Durham 3 6 1 1 0 3,165
1981 Stars And Crowns,B,f,Star Spangled 1 6 0 0 1 396
1982 PRE EMPTIVE STRIKE,Ch,c,Blushing Groom (Fr 3 30 7 8 6 338,454 9.76
At 2 Won Clarendon S. (Lr) (55,000), Vandal S. (Lr) (55,000), 2nd Grey S.
-G3 (75,000), Victoria S. (40,000), Coronation Futurity (R) (40,000)
At 3 Won Achievement H. (R) -L (55,000), 2nd Queenston S. (R) -L (70,000),
3rd Queen's Plate S. (R) -L (200,000), Friar Rock S. (O) (40,000)
At 4 2nd Autumn S. (O) (40,000)
1984 Slipped
1986 Redemptive,Ch,f,Briartic 1 2 0 0 0 0
1987 Borishka,B,f,Roberto 2 4 0 0 0 0 ( 66)
Unlike FOS, I actually put my money where my mouth is, and Indian Ocean just scares me to death. With the trend in stallion lines being so unsound, I feel it is very important to keep a line of soundness. At least with Alke I feel I have a shot of getting a horse to the races.
INDIAN HALO, 1995, Halo- West Indies by Gone West.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1998 Cousin George,B,c,Kentucky Jazz 1 1 0 0 1 750 (
2000 MEGAN'S HALO,B,f,Jules 3 23 7 1 4 115,207 ( 97)
At 3 Won Suffolk Downs Oaks (O) (35,000), Highland Happening S. (O)
(35,000)
2001 Indian Outlaw,Dk B/,c,Stormy Atlantic 1 1 0 0 0 175
2002 Indian Ocean,B,c,Stormy Atlantic
2003 Indian Moccasin,B,f,Stormy Atlantic Unraced
2nd dam
WEST INDIES, 1991, Gone West- Oceana by Northern Dancer.
1995 Indian Halo,B,f,Halo 2 3 0 0 1 2,745
1996 Lil Sophie,B,f,Green Dancer Unraced
1997 Andrew B Good,Dkbbr,c,Future Storm Unraced
1998 Handy,Dkbbr,c,Private Terms Unraced
1999 O Linda,Dkbbr,f,Southern Halo Unraced
2000 Shah Of Shahs,B,c,King Of Kings (Ire) 2 5 0 0 0
2001 Ganny Girl,Dkbbr,f,Sahm 1 7 0 2 2 16,130
2003 Unnamed,f,Royal Anthem (Live Foal)
2004 Unnamed,c,Aljabr (Pending)
3rd dam
OCEANA, 1983, Northern Dancer- South Ocean by New Providence.
1987 Mermaid's Purse,Ch,f,Devil's Bag 1 4 1 0 0 13,560
1988 Water Angel,B,f,Halo Unraced
1989 Barren
1990 Maritime Traveler,Ch,c,Secretariat 2 5 0 0 0
1991 West Indies,B,f,Gone West Unraced
1992 Colony Bay,B,f,Pleasant Colony 1 2 0 0 0 140
1993 Dead Foal
1994 =Biwa Shu Yu (Jpn),B,c,Meadowlake
IN JAPAN 2 11 0 0 0 0
1995 =Ballerina Tutu (Jpn),B,f,Brian's Time
IN JAPAN 1 5 0 0 2 25,386
1998 =BIWA SHINSEIKI (JPN),B,c,Forty Niner
IN JAPAN 4 30 9 7 6 2,797,781
DP = 15-3-15-0-3 DI = 2.43 CD = 0.75 AWD = 7.72
At 4 2nd Tokyo Daishoten (JPN)
At 5 Won Kakitsubata Kinen (JPN), Tochigi Marronnier Cup (JPN), 2nd
February S. (JPN), Teio Sho (JPN), Mercury Cup (JPN), Sakurambo Kinen
(JPN), 3rd Zen-Nippon Thoroughbred Cup (JPN), Tokyo Daishoten (JPN)
At 6 3rd Heian S. (JPN), Mercury Cup (JPN), Breeders' Gold Cup (JPN),
Kakitsubata Kinen (JPN)
2001 Oceanette,Ch,f,Pancho Villa Unraced
I don't breed my mares to produce a pretty foal, I actually race my horses. Indian Ocean only ran 5 times before injury stopped him, which is not an abberation of his pedigree, he's a product of this pedigree. I can't afford to raise a foal who has very little shot of even making the races.
Now Alke, who FOS dismissed due to one name in his pedigree in a spot where other leading sires have had names like Poker, Bunty's Flight, Admirals Voyage, Sunrise Flight and current top sires with Jet Diplomacy, *Hawaii, Magesterial, Silver Saber, and Call the Witness has a much stronger vein running thru his pedigree. His page reads:
PASAMPSI, 1983, Crow (Fr)- Princess Matilda by Hasty Road.
1990 Bermuda Gal,Dkbbr,f,Al Nasr (Fr) 4 27 1 1 2 14,279
1991 Patto,B,c,Dixieland Band
IN UNITED KINGDOM 2 8 4 0 1 42,544
1992 DEBIT MY ACCOUNT,Ch,f,Classic Account 4 34 11 4 5 448,641 (100) 8.94
At 4 Won My Charmer S. -L (60,000), 2nd Valnor Breeders' Cup S. -L
(90,000), 3rd Falls City Handicap -G3 (276,000)
At 5 Won Likely Exchange S. -L (50,000), Wintergreen S. -L (50,000), 3rd
Fairway Fun S. -L (74,250)
At 6 Won Marigold S. -L (60,000), Likely Exchange S. -L (59,000), 3rd
Wintergreen S. (O) (47,000)
1993 Sesquipedalian,Dkbbr,c,Slew O' Gold 4 35 2 1 4 13,916
1994 Manikato,B,c,Clever Trick
IN UNITED KINGDOM 9 65 1 6 3 21,774
1995 Amnesty,Ch,c,Fly So Free 2 4 2 0 1 47,810 ( 95)
1997 Debt Free,Ch,f,Fly So Free 2 8 1 0 0 3,249
1998 RED N'GOLD,Ch,f,Tabasco Cat 4 33 5 6 4 294,212 (103)
At 4 Won Pippin S. (O) (50,000), 2nd Oaklawn Breeders' Cup S. -G3
(200,000), Bayakoa S. -L (75,000), 3rd Turfway Breeders' Cup S. -G3
(200,000), H. B. P. A. Handicap -L (100,000)
At 5 Won Pippin S. (O) (50,000), 2nd Oaklawn Breeders' Cup S. -G3
(200,000), 3rd Bayakoa S. (O) (48,000)
2000 ALKE,Dk B/,c,Grand Slam 3 9 5 3 0 219,385 (112)
At 2 2nd Iroquois S. -G3 (114,200)
At 3 2nd Southwest S. -L (75,000)
At 4 Won Deputy Minister Handicap -G3 (100,000), 2nd Dubai Golden Shaheen
-G1 (UAE)
2001 Marjorie C,Ch,f,Charismatic Unraced
2002 Debit Or Credit,Ch,f,Cat Thief 1 1 0 0 0 150 ( 33)
2nd dam
PRINCESS MATILDA, 1973, Hasty Road- Queen Maud by Nearctic.
1978 Vicar Of Bray,Ch,c,King's Bishop 8 110 10 12 10
1979 Not Covered Previous Year
1980 Tom's Pick,B,c,Bold Commander 2 7 0 1 0 4,147
1981 Princess Jamily,Ch,f,Broadway Forli 2 14 1 2 2 10,060
1982 PINK RICE,B,f,Circle Home 5 51 7 10 9 109,117 7
At 3 2nd Mademoiselle S. (O) (25,000)
At 4 Won Pucker Up Handicap (R) (O) (15,000)
1983 Pasampsi,Ch,f,Crow (Fr) 4 42 9 7 6 194,457 4.67
At 3 3rd Heirloom S. (O) (40,000)
1984 Barren
1985 Leading Man,B,c,Mr. Leader 3 31 3 1 1 26,989 ( 73)
3rd dam
QUEEN MAUD, 1968, Nearctic- *Vent Neurf by =Matador (Gb).
1973 Princess Matilda,Ch,f,Hasty Road 1 8 2 2 1 11,220
1974 Barren
1975 LADY LONSDALE,Ch,f,King's Bishop 4 50 13 13 6 307,468 8.91
At 3 2nd Bison City S. (25,000)
At 4 Won Bed O'roses H. -G3 (50,000), 2nd Imperatice H. (50,000), Regret
H. (25,000)
At 5 Won Vagrancy H. -G3 (50,000), 2nd Correction H. -G3 (50,000), Distaff
H. -G3 (50,000), Shuvee H. -G2 (50,000), Nellie Morse H. (30,000),
3rd Twilight Tear S. (50,000), Shrewsbury H. (30,000)
1976 Unnamed,f,Victoria Park
1977 Slipped
1978 Slipped
1979 Slipped Twins
1980 Lord Bexon,Ch,c,Lord Durham 3 6 1 1 0 3,165
1981 Stars And Crowns,B,f,Star Spangled 1 6 0 0 1 396
1982 PRE EMPTIVE STRIKE,Ch,c,Blushing Groom (Fr 3 30 7 8 6 338,454 9.76
At 2 Won Clarendon S. (Lr) (55,000), Vandal S. (Lr) (55,000), 2nd Grey S.
-G3 (75,000), Victoria S. (40,000), Coronation Futurity (R) (40,000)
At 3 Won Achievement H. (R) -L (55,000), 2nd Queenston S. (R) -L (70,000),
3rd Queen's Plate S. (R) -L (200,000), Friar Rock S. (O) (40,000)
At 4 2nd Autumn S. (O) (40,000)
1984 Slipped
1986 Redemptive,Ch,f,Briartic 1 2 0 0 0 0
1987 Borishka,B,f,Roberto 2 4 0 0 0 0 ( 66)
Unlike FOS, I actually put my money where my mouth is, and Indian Ocean just scares me to death. With the trend in stallion lines being so unsound, I feel it is very important to keep a line of soundness. At least with Alke I feel I have a shot of getting a horse to the races.
halo, your caution is noted and respected. FWIW, Indian Ocean's short career was probably the result of the Del Mar track which was mowing them down left and right at the time that he was injured with a bowed tendon.
What would be really interesting is to know why some of his relatives also had short careers. That I don't know but it would be fascinating if we had that information.
What would be really interesting is to know why some of his relatives also had short careers. That I don't know but it would be fascinating if we had that information.
hi halo
You wrote "Now Alke, who FOS dismissed due to one name in his pedigree in a spot where other leading sires have had names like Poker, Bunty's Flight, Admirals Voyage, Sunrise Flight and current top sires with Jet Diplomacy, *Hawaii, Magesterial, Silver Saber, and Call the Witness has a much stronger vein running thru his pedigree."
I guess I see it differently...I believe the dam's sire is a potentially EXTREMELY important (if not primary) ingredient in a sire-hopeful's pedigree. I see Crow as not just cancer-like (and probably magnified when close up in the pedigree of a young sire-hopeful)...but an unnecessary very high risk.
If you would like to hope for the possibility that an aberration might occur (as it relates to the prospects that Crow might enhance or at least not diminish Alke's chances for success as a sire)...I say go right ahead. I would NOT under any conditions take that chance (with Crow). I suggest that might be analogous to a stunt person jumping off a tall building without a net or airbag-cushion to protect from the otherwise near-certain result. There might be a miniscule chance that the result of the jump without a net or cushion would not be fatal...there is also a chance (however slim from my perspective) that Crow as a broodmire sire of a stallion prospect, might not prove fatal to that stallion's chances for success as a sire. I for one do not like Alke's chances...mainly as a result of Crow's probable influence.
You wrote "Unlike FOS, I actually put my money where my mouth is..."
As for your sad assumptions and pathetic attempts to demean...you come off as angry and blustery. I offer my sympathies to you.
Respectfully
You wrote "Now Alke, who FOS dismissed due to one name in his pedigree in a spot where other leading sires have had names like Poker, Bunty's Flight, Admirals Voyage, Sunrise Flight and current top sires with Jet Diplomacy, *Hawaii, Magesterial, Silver Saber, and Call the Witness has a much stronger vein running thru his pedigree."
I guess I see it differently...I believe the dam's sire is a potentially EXTREMELY important (if not primary) ingredient in a sire-hopeful's pedigree. I see Crow as not just cancer-like (and probably magnified when close up in the pedigree of a young sire-hopeful)...but an unnecessary very high risk.
If you would like to hope for the possibility that an aberration might occur (as it relates to the prospects that Crow might enhance or at least not diminish Alke's chances for success as a sire)...I say go right ahead. I would NOT under any conditions take that chance (with Crow). I suggest that might be analogous to a stunt person jumping off a tall building without a net or airbag-cushion to protect from the otherwise near-certain result. There might be a miniscule chance that the result of the jump without a net or cushion would not be fatal...there is also a chance (however slim from my perspective) that Crow as a broodmire sire of a stallion prospect, might not prove fatal to that stallion's chances for success as a sire. I for one do not like Alke's chances...mainly as a result of Crow's probable influence.
You wrote "Unlike FOS, I actually put my money where my mouth is..."
As for your sad assumptions and pathetic attempts to demean...you come off as angry and blustery. I offer my sympathies to you.
Respectfully