What does everyone think of Catagory Five as a stallion?

[summerhorse]

He's in CA, he's black and gorgeous, long in the back, not great conformation but not horrible and only has a few crops at the track so far which seem to be doing O-Kaaaay... I think he's at a new farm now from what I gleaned from the ads? Hoping he'll get better mares, he isn't cheap anyway (well for a regional market).

What do the stallion experts (of which I am not one) think of his chances to be a decent stallion or do you think his early numbers are about as good as he is going to get?

I just think he's so gorgeous I WANT him to do well, plus he might put out some black foals. He stands at Valley Creek Farm for $2,500 but they don't have him on their site yet. Although he was in that auction for that TB retirement home and had a page there but now I can't FIND it.

[Sam]

I just think he's so gorgeous

What pics are YOU looking at? Everyone I've seen makes him look like a conformational nightmare, ESPECIALLY with those legs. I'd rather breed to a donkey.

[Nijinsky]

Let's see

Foals 74
Starters 39 (53%)
Winners/starters 22 (56%)

Total Earnings $726,609

Stakes winners 2
Stakes horses 4

Avg. Earning Index 0.71
Comparable Index 0.67

PASS On this one unless you are breeding for show or race it yourself.

[Nijinsky]

So Sam what conformation faults do you see in the pics?

You can't tell from a side shot of a picture what conformation faults a horse has. Most all conformation pics are set up to make the horse look good.

From what I have been told for someone who isn't around or involved with horses I'd sure like to know what you know?
I've been told pedigree's is about all you know.

Necks a little thick other than that, he looks fine in the picture I'm looking at http://www.ctba.com/06directory/pdfs/CATEGORYFIVE.pdf

[Flight]

This is a view from "down under".

I'd be more worried about his neck based on that photo.

Apart from that he looks a strong type.

What the hell are you guys breeding anyway??????

Ours don't have those necks.

[summerhorse]

He's got a big old crest on him that's for sure! But that is because he's way too fat and doesnt' look to have much muscle tone. He obviously lives the good life (to a horse). he should be exercised but maybe he doesn't have the nicest dispostion, I don't know.

Fromt he side his legs don't look too bad, note he'd never win a stallion show, his hind legs certainly don't have the best angulation and if they lined his back leg up correctly I suspect he'd be really butt high! His shoulder is a mite bit straight but he's neither great nor horrible conformation wise I think. I've seen a lot worse. NOW what he might look at from head on or behind is a different question!!

Of course Easy goer's right (?) front leg looked like a pretzel and it didn't slow him down much.

I'd only be breeding to keep as a riding/jumping horse or race myself, not to sell or expect to win the derby! (or I'd be looking at better stallions! LOL)

[madelyn]

Yuck.

[kimberley mine]

What the hell are you guys breeding anyway??????

Ours don't have those necks.

Flight, meet the Princequillo/Secretariat front end!

Princequillo
http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/nutbush/Princequillo.jpeg

His grandson Secretariat
http://www.sportingscenegallery.com/images/pauly-secretariat.jpg

Secretariat's grandsons Storm Cat, Gone West, and AP Indy
http://www.stallionregister.com/images/conformation/stormcat.jpg
http://www.stallionregister.com/images/conformation/gonewest.jpg
http://www.stallionregister.com/images/conformation/apindy.jpg

It is fairly common in NA, and while I personally find it less than aesthetically pleasing, if they run like hell, who cares what they look like.

[Nijinsky]

Still waiting to hear what exactly is wrong with his legs. Madilyn anything specific?

I don't know too many people who worry to much about a sires conformation ( it isn't the highest criteria on the list when deciding a mating ) All horses have some kind of faults. Unless the stallion is really crooked like offset knees, turns way out in one leg, back at the knee most breeders are willing to take a chance on a sire who is producing quality runners, and himself was a very good runner. Again you can't tell from one picture this sires conformation faults or any horse for that matter. Except that he does have a huge neck, but so does Siberian Summer and Candi's Gold

I wouldn't breed to him because of market value.

PS I am glad I do not own this sire or my feelings would be hurt by some of the comments made from just looking at one picture.

[Gunner]

The majority of Category Five's that I have seen have a bad knee (or two). They tend to be fairly stout and nice bodied. I had a Category Five two year old last year, for a friend, that had an awesome mind and beautiful body, but was offset in both knees.

If you're are thinking of breeding to him I would recommend that you choose a mare that you KNOW throws good knees.

[madelyn]

Still waiting to hear what exactly is wrong with his legs. Madilyn anything specific?

Yes. His neck is short and hoggy, setup high. His hip is short and flat. His hocks are too straight. He is unbalanced. In short, not a breeding quality animal.

Anyone who does NOT care about stallion conformation when breeding is not intent on breeding a quality animal. We have so much equine junk as it is... there are a lot of stallions out there that should have been CUT!

[Nijinsky]

I had a Category Five two year old last year, for a friend, that had an awesome mind and beautiful body, but was offset in both knees.

Now that definatly isn't good.

Good example.
I am more incline to go by experence of what people have seen in person than on paper.
Thanks

[Nijinsky]

Hi Madilyn, sorry but I asked a few friends what their opinion was on his conformation, just looking at that pic, both being very good at judging conformation. And we ageed we didn't see the same thing you did, except his neck

Now I agree there is way to much junk out there, but more based on pedigree, race record, and produce record, than conformation. If conformation was king in the breeding business people wouldn't have flocked to such sire lines as......Seattle Slew +++, Mr. Prospector, In Reality, Here in Ca. Skimming, Avenue of Flags, Bertrando etc. etc.

Consider this question to Alan Porter "pedigree expert" on the subject....link is provided. His answer was pretty much what I said earlier.
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:iHn- ... laws&hl=en

Sacramento, CA
Sometimes a horse might not be perfect but his or her blood's as blue as it gets or vice versa. At what point do you ignore a conformation flaw because the pedigree is very good or when do you ignore a poor pedigree because the conformation's stellar? What tips the balance for you, and does a horse come to mind that had the best balance you can think of?

Porter:
I don’t think I would ignore a poor pedigree for stellar conformation if I was breeding to race. I think that kind of horse is probably better for producing for the show ring. For a runner, we are primarily looking for athleticism. From the point of view of using a stallion who has conformation flaws – which most do, including some of the very best – I would firstly be concerned whether he was athletic enough to run through them. I would then be concerned to send a mare who did not herself duplicate or throw those faults. Other than that, I wouldn’t lose sleep about conformation flaws in a well-bred, well-performed horse….he would certainly have a better shot than a beautiful individual who couldn’t run and/or had a poor pedigree.


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[aurora]

The most significant flaw I can see from this photo is that his left front appears to be club footed. The left seems less so, but he is standing in grass so it is hard to tell the degree.

[Nijinsky]

Well I talked to Sue Hubbard who stood CATAGORY FIVE for several years and who is also a sales agent. I know Sue and she has no reason to lie to me. She probably thought I was asking for breeding reasons.

And her honest answer when I asked about how was his conformation, was this......"He has an offset knee (a flaw one cannot tell from a side pic ) and some comments about his neck....other than that HE IS JUST FINE"

Hope that clarifies any questions about this sire flaws.