Illinois Registered Stallion

[tammysinnett]

I have an Illinois Registered stallion. Those that have seen him say he has unbelievable conformation an do buy a breeding.(only 5) I am not really in this to make money off him but I too feel he has something to offer. I have tried adveritsing him as a two year old that was sold at Fasig Tipton for 140,000,Breeder Cup nominated and ran 6 furlongs in 1;09 4/5--His race record not reflecting his true ability, due to a gate accident that ended his career. He shares the same sire as Illinois Derby winner 2005, Greeley's Galaxy(sire Mr. Greeley). What am I doing wrong????I have offered anyone with a mare of good blood very cheap breedings just to get some on the ground---someone is really missing out here--do you recomend an agent????El Correder and him share the same sire and you can see resmblence in them. He is Kentucky bred, and figured once I put him into stud in Illinois someone would see his potential???The mares on his list to breed this year are majestic light/Buckpasser bloodline, Notable Cat bloodline, Seattle Morn bloodline,Elusive quality bloodline andFerdinand bloodline. Is anyone out there that can guide me to seeing some of his babies go to the track?????

[halo]

Only way you can get a non commercial non-stakes winning stallions foals to the races are do it yourself. Excellent stakes winning stallions are a dime a dozen, and anyone who is going to put the effort in breeding a mare and getting a foal born and raising it is going to use a stallion that either has some commercial oomph or is a proven stallion.

[Ryeno]

The only advice i would give you (I dont know anything about stallions,dont own one ,never have) would be to offer complimentary breedings to just about any thoroughbred mare that has 4 legs and a tail.Just charge your regular mare care and at tops maybe a stallion handlers fee cheap.It might not be finnancially viable to do this and you might get alot of shaky mares but if you go on the strength in numbers route you may get some more interest down the road if he produces some good looking babies and some runners in a few years.I would say that you are better off not comparing him to El Corredor because they only share the same sire but more concentrate on advertising him for what he's done and his female family.You should also LIST HIS NAME so we can dissect his pedigree and some of the pedigree gurus on the board can give you some insight into his family and possible nicking reccomendations.You could also advertise him on the Thoroughbred Times, BloodHorse and on stallion/salesring.com etc

[tammysinnett]

I really appreciate any comments, thankyou. The name of the stallion is Summit Climber 1997 dark bay 16 hands ,Mr.Greeley out of Peak. He is truly awesome in his look and very competitive at everything he does. Catches on quickly. He bred three last year----and has a list of five this year......ummmm just hope one of them has a baby that can prove he is something....can't tell I am in love uhhh??I only bought him because of his presence and the way he carried himself. Later came the idea to "share the wealth ", and only because we truly believe he has something to give---- and his 6 furlong times were competitive. we would make a heck of a deal with a breeding to a great mare if anyone was willing to try because I truly believe he could produce something worth someones time. We have offfered allot of donations this year and he is advertised in our Illinois registery. We havent advertise in bloodhorse etc because we are only a 3 horse operation and our profits are none to pay for the advertisement. Maybe just maybe one of you would be willing to take a chance?????Or maybe you know someone who would????Thankyou everyone for always being helpful we have only been with the race end of the horses three years now and I can't believe how great everyone has been----always guiding us to better ways. We truly are grateful. And Brian Rice if you are reading this forumn we are truly in debt to you for the wonderful stallion that lives here with us and we will be sending you tapes of foals as promised.

[BJ]

The only advice i would give you (I dont know anything about stallions,dont own one ,never have) would be to offer complimentary breedings to just about any thoroughbred mare that has 4 legs and a tail.Just charge your regular mare care and at tops maybe a stallion handlers fee cheap.It might not be finnancially viable to do this and you might get alot of shaky mares but if you go on the strength in numbers route you may get some more interest down the road if he produces some good looking babies and some runners in a few years.I would say that you are better off not comparing him to El Corredor because they only share the same sire but more concentrate on advertising him for what he's done and his female family.You should also LIST HIS NAME so we can dissect his pedigree and some of the pedigree gurus on the board can give you some insight into his family and possible nicking reccomendations.You could also advertise him on the Thoroughbred Times, BloodHorse and on stallion/salesring.com etc

Well now there is some REAL responsible breeding advice

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the odds of getting a decent horse from breeding like that are so high because it is a real longshot to get anything good with that kind of plan? Lots of food for the French though...great plan!

[Ryeno]

BJ,

This will be my last response to you.I dont have to respond because i or no one else has to answer something to your liking or approval.

Tammi asked a way to get more mares for her stallion,I gave her one option.Her stallion is a very attractive horse from the pictures ive seen.They may not be world beaters but they may have other values.I dont mean in a French Deli.

Ryeno

[wen8t]

This is my advise to you my dad is in the same prediction your in , I can tell you this much don't just breed anything to him , if your going to stand him you get real decent mares to him , even if you have to buy them your self , you are going to have to prove he is worthy and until you do you are going to have to fork out the money on your end until he does, and if your not willing to do that , then only stand him , to breed what mares you have and try to get them to the track and have fun with it , because stallions are a dime of dozen and it is real harddddd to make a proven stallion Thanks .

[halo]

His race record is poor, his speed numbers are average, he was sold as a yearling and was well below Mr. Greeleys average (ranked 27 of 38 sold), even being a half brother to several stakes winners. As has been said before, if you are dead set in trying to make him a stallion, buy good mares yourself and produce some of your own foals, but be prepared to lose a lot of money. If you aren't willing to do this, you can't expect anyone else to be willing to breed mares to him either. If he's that nice and attractive you might be better off making a show horse out of him.

[madelyn]

A good stallion makes a GREAT gelding . It is enough of a challenge to get mares for a stallions that is a graded stakes winner. At this point, I am damn glad I waited for a real horse before I tried to "build" one as a race stallion. Thirty starts, on the board in nine graded stakes.. half to a filly that won 5 G1's and beat the boys... Rocking Trick also has turf and dirt wins to his claim and I believe will be a very good sire for all-weather track horses.

My other boy, Bad Boy Atta, is at least also a horse that ran his eyeballs off and tried, even on three times bowed tendons. He is a stunner to look at and has a heart the size of Texas. But I have mainly non TB dates for him, but heck there's at least 30 of them. His TB dates are the hunter kind. That may be the way you have to go with Summit Climber. Get really good photos. Print up flyers. Post them in every feed, tack, farm & machinery store within 200 miles.. oh heck, every gas station. Vet clinics. Get out and beat the streets and pimp him. Get him an AQHA number for Appendix... Even if you get a $150 for a cover for your neighbor's horse, at least he is earning his oats. Just accept that he won't be building you a new barn anytime soon. He wasn't a racehorse so pushing him as a race stallion will like pushing a very large rock uphill, if you lose momentum it could crush you.

[Ill-bred]

You'll need to prove him yourself, but in your favor there is not much stallion competition in Illinois right now. My home state could certainly use a new sire or two.

[LSB]

if you are dead set in trying to make him a stallion, buy good mares yourself and produce some of your own foals, but be prepared to lose a lot of money. If you aren't willing to do this, you can't expect anyone else to be willing to breed mares to him either.

In my mind, this pretty much sums up your situation. It's hard to ask other people to breed to him when you aren't doing so yourself.

[BJ]

This is my advise to you my dad is in the same prediction your in , I can tell you this much don't just breed anything to him , if your going to stand him you get real decent mares to him , even if you have to buy them your self , you are going to have to prove he is worthy and until you do you are going to have to fork out the money on your end until he does, and if your not willing to do that , then only stand him , to breed what mares you have and try to get them to the track and have fun with it , because stallions are a dime of dozen and it is real harddddd to make a proven stallion Thanks .

Excellent advice and insight into reality, IMO!

[ZiaLand]

Get really good photos. Print up flyers. Post them in every feed, tack, farm & machinery store within 200 miles.. oh heck, every gas station. Vet clinics. Get out and beat the streets and pimp him. Get him an AQHA number for Appendix... Even if you get a $150 for a cover for your neighbor's horse, at least he is earning his oats. Just accept that he won't be building you a new barn anytime soon. He wasn't a racehorse so pushing him as a race stallion will like pushing a very large rock uphill, if you lose momentum it could crush you.

Tammy,

Madelyn's advice is very sound and the suggestion of printing up flyers, etc. was one I was going to make. This costs you very little and can really cover a lot of ground with local breeders and mare owners. You might be surprised how much business this will generate. Just be sure your flyers are professionally done and include a quality picture of Summit Climber and information about your stallion's best points. Your best shot may be to initially focus on the sporthorse market although he doesn't have the great size that a lot of sporthorse breeders tend to look for. Does your stallion seem to have the temperament for it? Will you offer I.A. for non-TB mares? Your stallion has some nice bloodlines, but he doesn't have the credentials to have much draw as a commercial stallion for producing racehorses. With a few good runners that could change, at least at a regional level, but getting to that point will be an expensive gamble and may be years down the road.

Before giving the following opinions, I would like to state that I am not a pedigree expert, but I have invested a lot of time studying bloodlines and patterns that seem to work. That being said, there are some interesting horses in Summit Climber's pedigree, in particular one that really caught my eye was TORBELLA. This successful mare was inbred to the great Tourbillon, and you don't often find this mare in a pedigree, much less that close up! Tourbillon worked very well with Man O War, in particular War Admiral and War Relic. (Also Secretariat, but Summit Climber already has Secretariat in his pedigree.) Crossing Summit Climber on mares with these bloodlines (possibly Valid Appeal line mares) *might* produce some interesting results in terms of athleticism. Reinforcing Tourbillon in the mare lines also might add some positives to a pedigree. Look at the pedigree of the great racehorse DR. DEVIOUS and you can see Tourbillon in the tail male, although through European sirelines instead of American lines, and TORBELLA in the tail female line. Swiss Yodeler mares might also present an interesting cross, since THOR'S ECHO was produced by Summit Climber's female family, and Damascus also has elements that may complement Summit Climber's pedigree. Produce of his general female family also suggests the Northern Dancer and Hail To Reason line mares might be worth consideration, but as a matter of personal prefence, I would tend to breed away from adding substantially more Nearco to the hypomating. If the mare owner is going primarily for a sporthorse, reinforcing Polynesian through pedigree positions other than the tail male line and OTHER THAN Raise A Native might be an option. I would definitely avoid mares from the Raise A Native sire line, as duplicating the male lines in the first five generations of the hypomating seldom results in success (although it does happen because it's done so often it statistically has to work on occasion.)

There are a universe of other things to consider in each mare, such as the overall quality of the mare's pedigree, the balance of the hypomating, the mare's female family, conformation, suitable phenotype and not reinforcing weaknesses in your stallion, temperament, etc., etc. Offering deep incentives to the best quality mares, and possibly even actively seeking out the owners of these mares, may be a way to help attract the type of mares that would result in a better chance of success.

Breeding is an expensive gamble and you have to be realistic that your chances of great success are very slim.

Laurie

[austique]

Actually the breeding everything with four legs and a heartbeat was how they made Slewacide in OK and he only started once

[tammysinnett]

All of your advice is truly taken to heart. We appreciate it. His first foal is due any day now (a mare we bred)---I am very excited---we did purchase mares for him and a friend is doing the same so maybe just maybe that will be one step in the right direction. Also to any of you that may be interested if you have a mare that you feel would be his best advertisement I offer you a free breeding in 2006. Thankyou Tammy