How is Cal. Select Shaping Up?
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
How is Cal. Select Shaping Up?
Any more insights on the California Select yearling sale in October? Did folks get some good horses in?
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CA Michael
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I was happy to have 5 yearlings accepted. As I mentioned earlier, I thought new inspector Kim Lloyd did an outstanding job of looking for athletes first. It seems to me that inspectors in previous years may have been looking for defects first, athleticism second, although there were an awful lot of crooked yearlings in last year's sale.
I received the complete consignor's list last week, and must admit I am disappointed at some of the sires who are represented. I'm not sure how a select sale can include multiple entries by Epic Honor, Gotham City, Regent Act, Walk That Walk, Madraar, Seattle Bound, Mud Route, Rio Verde, Nineleven, and Makors Mark. At the same time, it seems a pity that nice stallions like Avanzado, Freespool, and Bartok have only one or two catalogued. To its credit, Barretts did not accept any yearlings by California's most over-hyped flop, Comic Strip.
It seems to me that Barretts should trailblaze the industry by disclosing more information to buyers. For example, I think all yearlings should undergo drug testing. I can think of several consignors right off the top of my head who I suspect use steroids to pump up the muscle mass of their foals. I also think that the catalog should include an appendix listing the breeder of each hip number. Buyers should know if racing outfits are culling their stock, perhaps due to some hidden defects. Finally, I would like to see Barretts promote Jess Jackson's agenda forbidding dual sales agency, kickbacks, etc.
JMO
I received the complete consignor's list last week, and must admit I am disappointed at some of the sires who are represented. I'm not sure how a select sale can include multiple entries by Epic Honor, Gotham City, Regent Act, Walk That Walk, Madraar, Seattle Bound, Mud Route, Rio Verde, Nineleven, and Makors Mark. At the same time, it seems a pity that nice stallions like Avanzado, Freespool, and Bartok have only one or two catalogued. To its credit, Barretts did not accept any yearlings by California's most over-hyped flop, Comic Strip.
It seems to me that Barretts should trailblaze the industry by disclosing more information to buyers. For example, I think all yearlings should undergo drug testing. I can think of several consignors right off the top of my head who I suspect use steroids to pump up the muscle mass of their foals. I also think that the catalog should include an appendix listing the breeder of each hip number. Buyers should know if racing outfits are culling their stock, perhaps due to some hidden defects. Finally, I would like to see Barretts promote Jess Jackson's agenda forbidding dual sales agency, kickbacks, etc.
JMO
Sigh...
All take these point by point.
1. Drug testing for yearlings - all for it. However, don't throw out, "I can think of several consignors right off the top of my head who I suspect use steroids to pump up the muscle mass of their foals." If you have proof, tell us a name. Otherwise, it's just rumormongering.
2. Listing breeders in the catalogue - again, no problem. I have no problem disclosing my horses (Hip #19 for example), though this time, as in the past, I didn't as it seemed kind of unneeded, as anyone with an internet connection and access to the Jockey Club website can find out who bred a particular horse, if they are interested. I also noticed, looking at the catalogue, that none of the consigners had YOUR name listed for the five yearlings you have in the sale, so....
3. The over-hyped flop of Comic Strip. Touched a raw nerve there, I admit, as I have a fairly nice filly by him. But your description of flop seems rather harsh. Using Brisnet numbers, I compared Comic Strip to another California stallion:
% Blacktype winners from foals:
Comic Strip - 3%
Siberian Summer - 3%
Median earnings
Comic Strip - $15,288
Siberian Summer - $15,375
2006 earnings:
Comic Strip - $700,368
Siberian Summer - $699,152
Superior runners from foals:
Comic Strip - 4%
Siberian Summer - 3%
Stakes winners in last three crops of racing age (foals of 2002):
Comic Strip - 5
Siberian Summer - 1
If you think I monkeyed the numbers on this, we'll do stakes winners of 2001 foal crop
Comic Strip - 0
Siberian Summer - 0
Looking at the numbers, you can see that Siberian Summer had 7 stakes winners from his first two crops - quite a good thing. Since then - 1 in four crops, including 2 year olds of this year. Comic Strip had no stakes winners in his first (Kentucky) crop, but since then has five stakes winners from 3 crops, including two year olds of this year. Also, his numbers aren't skewed by a couple of very nice horses, as is the case with Siberian Summer in which three horses account for nearly 39% of his overall progeny earnings, while Comic Strip's top three account for only a little more then 17%.
Oh yeah, one last thing...
Stud fees from 2006:
Comic Strip - $5,000
Siberian Summer - $6,500
All take these point by point.
1. Drug testing for yearlings - all for it. However, don't throw out, "I can think of several consignors right off the top of my head who I suspect use steroids to pump up the muscle mass of their foals." If you have proof, tell us a name. Otherwise, it's just rumormongering.
2. Listing breeders in the catalogue - again, no problem. I have no problem disclosing my horses (Hip #19 for example), though this time, as in the past, I didn't as it seemed kind of unneeded, as anyone with an internet connection and access to the Jockey Club website can find out who bred a particular horse, if they are interested. I also noticed, looking at the catalogue, that none of the consigners had YOUR name listed for the five yearlings you have in the sale, so....
3. The over-hyped flop of Comic Strip. Touched a raw nerve there, I admit, as I have a fairly nice filly by him. But your description of flop seems rather harsh. Using Brisnet numbers, I compared Comic Strip to another California stallion:
% Blacktype winners from foals:
Comic Strip - 3%
Siberian Summer - 3%
Median earnings
Comic Strip - $15,288
Siberian Summer - $15,375
2006 earnings:
Comic Strip - $700,368
Siberian Summer - $699,152
Superior runners from foals:
Comic Strip - 4%
Siberian Summer - 3%
Stakes winners in last three crops of racing age (foals of 2002):
Comic Strip - 5
Siberian Summer - 1
If you think I monkeyed the numbers on this, we'll do stakes winners of 2001 foal crop
Comic Strip - 0
Siberian Summer - 0
Looking at the numbers, you can see that Siberian Summer had 7 stakes winners from his first two crops - quite a good thing. Since then - 1 in four crops, including 2 year olds of this year. Comic Strip had no stakes winners in his first (Kentucky) crop, but since then has five stakes winners from 3 crops, including two year olds of this year. Also, his numbers aren't skewed by a couple of very nice horses, as is the case with Siberian Summer in which three horses account for nearly 39% of his overall progeny earnings, while Comic Strip's top three account for only a little more then 17%.
Oh yeah, one last thing...
Stud fees from 2006:
Comic Strip - $5,000
Siberian Summer - $6,500
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CA Michael
- Grade II Winner
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Can't help but harken back to the old saying, 'figures don't lie, but liars figure' when I read your post there, young man.
Your omission of key points in your 'comparison' leads me to believe you have some kind of hidden agenda. To set the record straight, allow me to use the sire statistics through Dec. 31, 2005 as applied to your two examples:
COMIC STRIP was bred to mares with a very high CI=1.33
COMIC STRIP, when bred to these same mares, sired foals with AEI=.74
SIBERIAN SUMMER was bred to mares with a very low CI=.87
SIBERIAN SUMMER, when bred to these same mares, sired foals AEI=1.25
Therefore, while COMIC STRIP was bred to much higher quality mares (1.33 vs .87), his foals have performed only about 60% as well (.74 vs 1.25)
COMIC STRIP devalued his mares by 44%.
SIBERIAN SUMMER improved his mares by 48%.
COMIC STRIP has sired NO graded stakes winners, 1 graded stakes placed horses, 3 listed SW. His most important horse won a stakes at Prairie Meadows (she was out of a Kingmambo mare).
SIBERIAN SUMMER has sired one Grade 1 SW, one Grade 2 SW, one millionaire, one world record holding stakes winner (5 1/2f), 3 other graded stakes placed horses, six other listed SW. None of his stakes winners was produced by a mare that had sold for more than $13,500 as a yearling, other than one older mare with five previous foals who were only winners.
In simple language, in spite of great opportunities at stud while standing at Lane's End Farm and in his early years in California, Comic Strip has clearly failed as a sire. There's no two ways about it. That's why he has earned the moniker of an over-hyped flop. Barretts apparently agrees, notwithstanding your argument to the contrary.
Your omission of key points in your 'comparison' leads me to believe you have some kind of hidden agenda. To set the record straight, allow me to use the sire statistics through Dec. 31, 2005 as applied to your two examples:
COMIC STRIP was bred to mares with a very high CI=1.33
COMIC STRIP, when bred to these same mares, sired foals with AEI=.74
SIBERIAN SUMMER was bred to mares with a very low CI=.87
SIBERIAN SUMMER, when bred to these same mares, sired foals AEI=1.25
Therefore, while COMIC STRIP was bred to much higher quality mares (1.33 vs .87), his foals have performed only about 60% as well (.74 vs 1.25)
COMIC STRIP devalued his mares by 44%.
SIBERIAN SUMMER improved his mares by 48%.
COMIC STRIP has sired NO graded stakes winners, 1 graded stakes placed horses, 3 listed SW. His most important horse won a stakes at Prairie Meadows (she was out of a Kingmambo mare).
SIBERIAN SUMMER has sired one Grade 1 SW, one Grade 2 SW, one millionaire, one world record holding stakes winner (5 1/2f), 3 other graded stakes placed horses, six other listed SW. None of his stakes winners was produced by a mare that had sold for more than $13,500 as a yearling, other than one older mare with five previous foals who were only winners.
In simple language, in spite of great opportunities at stud while standing at Lane's End Farm and in his early years in California, Comic Strip has clearly failed as a sire. There's no two ways about it. That's why he has earned the moniker of an over-hyped flop. Barretts apparently agrees, notwithstanding your argument to the contrary.
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CA Michael
- Grade II Winner
- Posts: 1258
- Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:32 pm
- Location: California
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CA Michael
- Grade II Winner
- Posts: 1258
- Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:32 pm
- Location: California
CA Michael wrote:Great bottom side of the catalog page; if sired by a more accomplished stallion this filly could bring a very nice price.
Someone underbred their good mare by a city block here.
So if a person likes the individual, how much do you downgrade her because of her sire? Or if she passes all the tests, does it matter that much who the sire is?
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CA Michael
- Grade II Winner
- Posts: 1258
- Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:32 pm
- Location: California
I can only tell you how I would look at it. I'm sure others have a different take.
Since the sire has had ample opportunity at stud, with very limited success, I would look at this filly primarily as a broodmare prospect with an outside chance of getting some run out of her. True, Madraar has probably not met with many other Storm Cat mares before this one, so it is possible this filly could be a breakout horse for him, but as a bidder I wouldn't bank on that.
The Nijinsky/Storm Cat cross is worrisome from a temperament standpoint, too. I'd have to absolutely be in love with this filly's conformation to raise my hand.
JMO
Since the sire has had ample opportunity at stud, with very limited success, I would look at this filly primarily as a broodmare prospect with an outside chance of getting some run out of her. True, Madraar has probably not met with many other Storm Cat mares before this one, so it is possible this filly could be a breakout horse for him, but as a bidder I wouldn't bank on that.
The Nijinsky/Storm Cat cross is worrisome from a temperament standpoint, too. I'd have to absolutely be in love with this filly's conformation to raise my hand.
JMO