Lemon Drop Kid observation

Monmouth Matt · Postby **Monmouth Matt** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:39 am

I am a big fan of the LD Kid from his racing days, and I like him alot as a sire at the 20k level. That said, I am very disappointed at the mares he has covered in the FT Nov. sale. I am considering a trip out as I'm being pulled out of my nice comfortable "claiming biz" into the brutal breeding game !!!! I love every aspect of the business and have been looking at in-foal mares....I'm extremely picky on the mare side as I am a firm believer that a 1st timer like me needs as much class as possible ....successful race career plus well-bred plus dynamite conformationin foal to a proven race sire. Sorry to ramble off topic, but I was hoping to see a little better mare bred to LDK....perhaps I have him overrated on my 10-20k stud fee list (that's where I fit). Any thoughts from the breeding pro's...(maven etc.)...BTW...I am breed to race....the other sires I'm attracted to are Gilded Time...Royal Academy...Pleasant Tap...Devil His Due. I have learned a ton over the past 3 years or so on this forum...Thanks!

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:47 am

Lemon Drop Kid was looked at as a failure by many as late as a year and a half ago. It wasn't until Lemons Forever that people thought "maybe he's waking up". So, the mares you'll see infoal to him reflect a lot of this mentality.

For what it's worth, if you want to make a serious play into the breeding end and want as much class on the dam side (as you should), I highly recommend ignoring who is infoal to who, and just focus on the page. I personally never use the covering sire as a reason to like or pass on a mare.

Oh, and I really LOVE both Royal Academy and Lemon Drop Kid and I've been dying to get my hands on a good Gilded Time filly... the broodmare blood he carries is gold.

Monmouth Matt · Postby **Monmouth Matt** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:57 am

Thanks Maven......by the way, I meant the Keeneland Nov sale, not the FT. The Keeneland catalog came out online this week. I'm also looking forward to seeing the Adena Springs offerings , as they sometimes have some nice race mares in their Broodie sale.

The reason I'm trying to pay some attention to the sire is the racing end of it, but I will heavily weight the mare as you advise.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:03 am

The covering sire is important to a lot of people. But for me, I'm not going to pass on a great bottomline because she's infoal to someone I dont like. I just write off that foal as a sales weanling and focus on what I want to do with her.

I'm sure other's here give the covering sire more notice. We all have our own criteria.

I'm going through the sale now.. if you want we can exchange notes in pm's.

Monmouth Matt · Postby **Monmouth Matt** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:11 am

That would be great Maven ...Thanks.

BargainBlueblood · Postby **BargainBlueblood** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:11 am

Maven,

Interesting to hear you're not swayed by covering sire. As a breeder of limited means, I struggle with that equation. A lot of times, the mares I like best are in foal to sires who are going to produce babies I'll be struggling to give away, which often steers me in another direction. But I think perhaps my view is too short-sighted...ultimately, the mare needs to stand on her own, regardless of (or perhaps in spite of) covering sire. Obviously, the next time I buy a mare, I'll want her to "have it all," but I'm also going to try to keep my mind open, so I don't miss a bargain gem just because I don't adore who she's in foal to.

As for Lemon Drop Kid...I dunno...just from casual observation, he seems to have underperformed a little, based on the mares he's gotten. Even Lemons Forever seems more like a one-hit wonder than a viable, top-class race mare. I'm kinda surprised he's still in KY.

-Michael Slezak

Monmouth Matt · Postby **Monmouth Matt** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:17 am

i think his performance offsprings performance this year cemented his stay in Ky, although I would love to see him in NY. That's where i would like to drop the foal and participate in that program.....not to mention my love of Belmont and Saratoga!

LB · Postby LB » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:25 am

I'm with Maven when it comes to covering sires. I pick the mare I want to have in my broodmare band, the foal she brings with her is almost incidental.

BargainBlueblood, LDK has 4 graded stakes winners this year, inlcuding G1 winners Christmas Kid and Citronnade. He has 11 stakes winners and 18 stakes wins in 2007 and is in the top ten of the General Sires list. Hard to see how that's underperforming. (I should mention that I've always loved LDK as both a racehorse and a sire and I have a mare in foal to him for next year.)

Maven, we were the underbidder on a nice Gilded Time mare in last Nov's sale. She was a broodmare prospect then, now she's back in foal. You might want to check her out. Her name is Talverna.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:27 am

I think people sent him more stamina oriented mares at first, hoping for a two turn Derby horse. What he needed was a good injection of speed and for a good portion (maybe even majority) to be put on the turf.

Lemon Drop Kid is turning into as good as a turf sire as any in his price bracket.

And although his numbers and some perception do say "under performing", he's turning them around, especially with a fantastic year this year. It's a trend Arch did the last two years, but in even more dramatic fashion.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:29 am

LB wrote:Maven, we were the underbidder on a nice Gilded Time mare in last Nov's sale. She was a broodmare prospect then, now she's back in foal. You might want to check her out. Her name is Talverna.

Haha. Already on my list! Nice page and nice race mare.

LB · Postby LB » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:34 am

Maven wrote:
LB wrote:Maven, we were the underbidder on a nice Gilded Time mare in last Nov's sale. She was a broodmare prospect then, now she's back in foal. You might want to check her out. Her name is Talverna.

Haha. Already on my list! Nice page and nice race mare.

LOL, if we were shopping I never would have given the name out. :wink:

But the mare we entered in the sale (#2901) was withdrawn because she was put in the wrong place. So now I'll just be watching.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:44 am

Your mare had no reason to be that far back. Short of having blacktype herself, that page cant get a whole lot better. Young Gulch mare from that family should trump many before her, no question.

Is it just me, or are the placings this year a little mind-boggling? Maybe I have sour grapes because I was expecting a better spot for my filly, but I'm really questioning some spots the more I'm going through the sale.

BargainBlueblood · Postby **BargainBlueblood** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:46 am

Placings seemed to make no sense at all. I, of course, was looking in the back of the book, and kept thinking there were a lot of mares who were nowhere near my price range. It was sort of like, "What's a blue-blooded mare like you doing in a catalog position like this?"

LB · Postby LB » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:57 am

I agree that it looks like there are some odd placements in this sale. We were very disappointed--especially since the weanling half-brother sells in bk 1--which is why we withdrew her.

Green Hills · Postby **Green Hills** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:54 am

Monmouth Matt wrote:Thanks Maven......by the way, I meant the Keeneland Nov sale, not the FT. The Keeneland catalog came out online this week. I'm also looking forward to seeing the Adena Springs offerings , as they sometimes have some nice race mares in their Broodie sale.

The reason I'm trying to pay some attention to the sire is the racing end of it, but I will heavily weight the mare as you advise.

We have some nice mares in the Nov. Keeneland Sale:

Hip 385 - in foal to Hennessy
Hip 669 - Broodie prospect]
Hip 765 - in foal to Tale of the Cat
Hip 958 - in foal to Officer
Hip 1117 - in foal to Smart Strike
Hip 4133 - in foal to Cape Town.

We kept our Tiz Now mare in foal to LDK for ourselves.