LTBSC Sale?
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Sock Monkey
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LTBSC Sale?
Is anyone attending the LTBSC in Lafayette on Apr 13? If so, is anyone willing to give some feedback on a couple of hips?
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noworriesfarm
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I heard Poor quality both physically and pedigree wise. That will change in the next 2 or 3 years. Those guys selling in the sale now won't be there in the next few years. The cost of breeding and raising a foal is going to be so expensive these guys can't afford the costs. I'm sure the only person that made money was the guy that put on the sale and I bet that was slim.
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Primordial
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Sock Monkey
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larrygene wrote:I heard Poor quality both physically and pedigree wise. That will change in the next 2 or 3 years. Those guys selling in the sale now won't be there in the next few years. The cost of breeding and raising a foal is going to be so expensive these guys can't afford the costs. I'm sure the only person that made money was the guy that put on the sale and I bet that was slim.
There were actually some nice horses (at least on paper) in the sale.
Larry, not to sound argumentative, but who are the people you think won't be back at Blackham in the next few years? There were some pretty solid consignors represented: Southern Equine, Clear Creek Stud, Landlock, Blossom Racing, etc., etc. I understand the Ashy sales are considered low quality sales and let's face it - April isn't the time most of us are really shopping for mares or yearlings or unbroke 2yos, so I wouldn't expect a huge turnout of buyers, but I have definitely seen worse catalogs.
When you say "that will change in the next 2 or 3 years" what do you mean? Are you thinking the sale will improve in quality? A whole different set of consignors and buyers? I'm curious.
Sock, I didn't go to the sale nor have I seen a catalogue. But I was told by someone that did that the condition of many of the entries was less than sale fit. They even stated that the high seller was no show stopper but had a pedigree that you could recognize the sires and dams in the first three generations. Another person told me this sale is for local throwaways. The mentality of the people in that part of LA is and has been breed cheap, buy cheap. I stand a nice bred stallion this year for $500 and some yahoo comes up and wants to know if we will cut the price!! Number one, if you can't afford a $500 stud fee you don't need to be in the TB game!! Number two is they don't realize that the stud fee is just the beginning of the expenses. If thats an issue then I suspect the mare and baby are not going to get the best of care!!
When I say these guys won't be around in 2 or 3 years, these are what I call backyard breeders. They will breed to a no name, no good stallion, keep a common bred mare a year, foal her and then take the baby to the sale and sell it for $200 or $300, thinking that in the future if it runs they will get the breeders awards. As we speak they are finding out that these common bred foals that could compete a few years ago can't break their maiden at the lowest level state bred races. A few people have stepped up and paid the price to buy and/or breed to better stock. And they are the ones winning the races. The backyard breeder that a few years ago could win a race every now and then is ending up running far back. As you should know the cost of everything, from feed to vets to farm help to fuel is going through the roof. Simply put, these guys are going to realize they cannot afford to keep a mare and sell her foal for a few hundred dollars.
I honestly think the whole dynamics of the TB industry is going to change, especially in LA. There is just to much money to be made racing a state bred which in turn translates into higher sale prices for yearlings and 2 yr olds. There are folks that never run outside of the state and making $500K a year!!! That's serious money in my book. But, that being said, people with money are not going to come into the state from CA, TX, FL,KY and spend big bucks on a horse they can't recognize a name on the catalogue page. Not going to happen. And now, everbody and his brother are standing a stallion!!! They think its easy to stand and breed a stallion. They don't have a clue what it takes to get a mare in foal???? That also will last a year or two and then all these so called stud horses will disappear. There is definitely going to be a transition take place in the next few years and I counting on being a part of it!!!! JMO
When I say these guys won't be around in 2 or 3 years, these are what I call backyard breeders. They will breed to a no name, no good stallion, keep a common bred mare a year, foal her and then take the baby to the sale and sell it for $200 or $300, thinking that in the future if it runs they will get the breeders awards. As we speak they are finding out that these common bred foals that could compete a few years ago can't break their maiden at the lowest level state bred races. A few people have stepped up and paid the price to buy and/or breed to better stock. And they are the ones winning the races. The backyard breeder that a few years ago could win a race every now and then is ending up running far back. As you should know the cost of everything, from feed to vets to farm help to fuel is going through the roof. Simply put, these guys are going to realize they cannot afford to keep a mare and sell her foal for a few hundred dollars.
I honestly think the whole dynamics of the TB industry is going to change, especially in LA. There is just to much money to be made racing a state bred which in turn translates into higher sale prices for yearlings and 2 yr olds. There are folks that never run outside of the state and making $500K a year!!! That's serious money in my book. But, that being said, people with money are not going to come into the state from CA, TX, FL,KY and spend big bucks on a horse they can't recognize a name on the catalogue page. Not going to happen. And now, everbody and his brother are standing a stallion!!! They think its easy to stand and breed a stallion. They don't have a clue what it takes to get a mare in foal???? That also will last a year or two and then all these so called stud horses will disappear. There is definitely going to be a transition take place in the next few years and I counting on being a part of it!!!! JMO
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Sock Monkey
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Hey Larry,
I honestly wouldn't expect most of the horses in that sale to be sale fitted. At least one consignment was a partial dispersal after the death of the family patriarch - I was wondering what they looked like and assumed they were rough. But, well, as you said, I like to buy cheap, so I can overlook a rough around the edges horse if everything else is right. I do, however, like to get a nice leather halter with my purchase, so it is disappointing when consignors just use nylon at these cheaper sales.
And, I've got to 'fess up - I like to breed cheap, too. And, yes (I'm sure he told you this) I did ask Rob if you guys were doing any deals on your stallions. I'm guilty!
I do think $500 is a good deal on your horses and I do understand your frustration with breeders (I don't think you were offering the $500 thing when I looked at your guys - I probably wouldn't have asked if you were). But my point is, I like to get deals, but that sure doesn't mean I am going to short change the mare and foal. Do you think other people look at it differently?
Do you really think buyers from KY, FL, CA will start buying significantly in the next couple of years? At least in KY and FL there are still a lot of misperceptions about LA and LA breds. Do you see that changing soon?
How do you see the small time folks fitting in the "new" LA? Will there still be room for us? Or should we move the operation to OK?
I honestly wouldn't expect most of the horses in that sale to be sale fitted. At least one consignment was a partial dispersal after the death of the family patriarch - I was wondering what they looked like and assumed they were rough. But, well, as you said, I like to buy cheap, so I can overlook a rough around the edges horse if everything else is right. I do, however, like to get a nice leather halter with my purchase, so it is disappointing when consignors just use nylon at these cheaper sales.
And, I've got to 'fess up - I like to breed cheap, too. And, yes (I'm sure he told you this) I did ask Rob if you guys were doing any deals on your stallions. I'm guilty!
I do think $500 is a good deal on your horses and I do understand your frustration with breeders (I don't think you were offering the $500 thing when I looked at your guys - I probably wouldn't have asked if you were). But my point is, I like to get deals, but that sure doesn't mean I am going to short change the mare and foal. Do you think other people look at it differently?
Do you really think buyers from KY, FL, CA will start buying significantly in the next couple of years? At least in KY and FL there are still a lot of misperceptions about LA and LA breds. Do you see that changing soon?
How do you see the small time folks fitting in the "new" LA? Will there still be room for us? Or should we move the operation to OK?
Sock, when you were at the farm Jock was and is $1000 and Punch was and is $500. You've seen both stallions and you know that is a very good deal!! I promise you that is going to change next year!!! With both stallions not making a lot of money, but with excellent pedigrees and conformation, we needed numbers more than quality. Now we have yearlings and this year's babies to show we are going next year for a better quality mare even at the expense of quanity. No one is going to survive in this economy with $500 stallions!!!!! Our fees are going to double or triple next year. A $500 stud fee in LA gives you a $300 yearling.
Yes, I honestly think you will see changes in the way outsiders view LA breds sooner than later. Being able to breed outside the state every other year is a positive to me. Others disagree. Helps to bring in better blood. I've said this before and I'm going to keep saying it. LA doesn't need anymore stallions. They need better bred broodmares. I know for a fact that better broodstock is moving into the state everyday. The majority of the big money will come from outside the state not inside. And it will come. The purses and breeders awards are too good. There has in the last few years been some local big money get into the business but when you see what they have you know they don't have a clue about how to be successful in this game!! They will stay until the money runs out or the disappointments become to big and to many!!!!!
Believe it or not, OK has made some headway with the intro of racinos. The problem I see with OK racing is there are not enough racing days for TB's at Remington. The other tracks are primarily QH tracks with a smattering of TB races. I would run horses at Remington if their meet was longer or split with more days. I live about 10 minutes from the track. There's really no place to go with an OKie bred TB within the state after the meet. I will say the purses have gotten better which is a big plus. That's what brings the horses!!! Right now the future looks better in LA. JMO
Yes, I honestly think you will see changes in the way outsiders view LA breds sooner than later. Being able to breed outside the state every other year is a positive to me. Others disagree. Helps to bring in better blood. I've said this before and I'm going to keep saying it. LA doesn't need anymore stallions. They need better bred broodmares. I know for a fact that better broodstock is moving into the state everyday. The majority of the big money will come from outside the state not inside. And it will come. The purses and breeders awards are too good. There has in the last few years been some local big money get into the business but when you see what they have you know they don't have a clue about how to be successful in this game!! They will stay until the money runs out or the disappointments become to big and to many!!!!!
Believe it or not, OK has made some headway with the intro of racinos. The problem I see with OK racing is there are not enough racing days for TB's at Remington. The other tracks are primarily QH tracks with a smattering of TB races. I would run horses at Remington if their meet was longer or split with more days. I live about 10 minutes from the track. There's really no place to go with an OKie bred TB within the state after the meet. I will say the purses have gotten better which is a big plus. That's what brings the horses!!! Right now the future looks better in LA. JMO
Larrygene, that is the cajun way. They have been doing it for years and the older guys are to bullheaded to see why they should change. I see the same mentality in PA. As soon as the slots bill passed people around here started looking for cheap mares. The attitude was " Oh boy, I'm gunna raise me a thoroughbred to sell at the sale and make big bucks!" Geez, were they in shock when they saw how much stud fees were compared to QH's. AND they had to ship out of the area cause no one in NW PA stands thoroughbreds. I work at Presque Isle and the list of who's who sending in PA breds to race is staggering. Seems like everybody and their brothers from KY sent mares to PA to foal. I think the same is most likely happening in LA.
[quote="larrygene"]
Believe it or not, OK has made some headway with the intro of racinos. The problem I see with OK racing is there are not enough racing days for TB's at Remington. The other tracks are primarily QH tracks with a smattering of TB races. I would run horses at Remington if their meet was longer or split with more days. I live about 10 minutes from the track. There's really no place to go with an OKie bred TB within the state after the meet. I will say the purses have gotten better which is a big plus. That's what brings the horses!!! Right now the future looks better in LA. JMO[/quote]
Slots are a two edged sword. The Shawnee have bought land near Remington to put up a major casino. Horsemen are afraid that this going to drive the purses down at Remington to levels that were where they were before slots were passed.
Believe it or not, OK has made some headway with the intro of racinos. The problem I see with OK racing is there are not enough racing days for TB's at Remington. The other tracks are primarily QH tracks with a smattering of TB races. I would run horses at Remington if their meet was longer or split with more days. I live about 10 minutes from the track. There's really no place to go with an OKie bred TB within the state after the meet. I will say the purses have gotten better which is a big plus. That's what brings the horses!!! Right now the future looks better in LA. JMO[/quote]
Slots are a two edged sword. The Shawnee have bought land near Remington to put up a major casino. Horsemen are afraid that this going to drive the purses down at Remington to levels that were where they were before slots were passed.
Rick, I also live about 10 minutes from the track. I even leased a suite the year before they passed the slots for Remington. When that happened they doubled the price of the suites and I said adios!!! The reason I don't run at Remington is just what you said. They need more TB days. They should have a spring meet and a fall meet and let the QH's run at night in the summer. If that happens I would run some at Rem but for now I can run year round in LA for great purses. When EVD gets their turf course it will be turf racing year round. That's when the big boys will start moving in more than they are now. I'm saying in 2 maybe 3 years LA will have some of the best racing in the country.