OBS bloodbath

[bfinellc]

I am sitting here watching the OBS sale online and cannot believe the prices! It's a breeders bloodbath right now. These stud fees have got to be reduced or they are going to drive all of us little guys out of the business. It's definitely a buyer's market.

[ageecee]

Its a buyers market if the sellers are willing to sell and it dont look like many are willing to sell.

[bfinellc]

That's true! Of course I wouldn't want to sell my yearling for peanuts, either, when I've got $10,000 in the stud fee and another $15,000 in boarding bills! I'd like to know what percentage of the sales are at a profit.....I'm guessing less than 10%.

[LB]

I know this is going to be an unpopular point of view but... I am often amazed by how many people say they "breed to sell" because they can't afford to race. If you can't afford to race your own product, then who can?

It costs approximately $20,000 to get the average yearling to the races. It costs approx. $50,000 a year to keep a horse in training and racing. Those costs remain constant (except for the price of insurance) whether a buyer purchases a yearling for 50K or 5K. So how many buyers, given the choice, are going to opt for the cheaper horse?

When the TB market was rising, some people bred any mare they could get their hands on because it seemed that buyers could always be found. Not any more. No matter how well intentioned a breeding was, there are always going to be yearlings that don't turn out to suit the market parameters--and those are growing ever narrower by the day.

The breeders who are going to come through this major financial correction in one piece are the ones who had a back-up plan. Those who didn't are really going to suffer.

[serenarider]

Well I was there and I will tell you it's worse then a blood bath. I brought mine home and he will go to the yearling sale if not sold private. He was in the first day witch was a joke. There were so meny outs and people just leaving really there was no one there. NO Ky money and NO over seas money at all. It's all local money and they are stealing that's forsure. The horses that are selling people have to sell. The horses that they rna or just scratched can hold on to them.

I agree with you Lb about some of the lower end stuff. But I also think it's not just the breeders fault it's also the stallions owners for alowing the so called lower end mares get bred in the first place. It takes two to tango.

[LB]

I agree with you Lb about some of the lower end stuff. But I also think it's not just the breeders fault it's also the stallions owners for alowing the so called lower end mares get bred in the first place. It takes two to tango.

The stallion owners are looking to make money; they're not going to turn away mares unless their stallions' books are full. It has to be the mare owners who educate themselves about what the market demands and who exercise responsibility over what gets bred.

[Sysonby]

It costs approximately $20,000 to get the average yearling to the races. It costs approx. $50,000 a year to keep a horse in training and racing. Those costs remain constant (except for the price of insurance) whether a buyer purchases a yearling for 50K or 5K. So how many buyers, given the choice, are going to opt for the cheaper horse?

I agree with your premise but before people have heart failure, I race on the B Circuit and my figure is closer to $25K a year (barring any enormous vet bills). At even lesser circuits, it's probably about $18-20K. Between Oct of my horse's yearling year to July (2 year old debut), it cost about $15,000 for everything.

But you're right though. If the breeder doesn't want the horse, why would anyone else want him? Something to consider carefully if a breeder's exit strategy requires selling the horse.

[Sock Monkey]

I know this is going to be an unpopular point of view but... I am often amazed by how many people say they "breed to sell" because they can't afford to race. If you can't afford to race your own product, then who can?

I agree with LB. I've been to four yearling sales thus far this year (LTBSC, OBS, KEE and LTBA) and of those sales I've seen only a handful of horses that I really liked enough to put into training. (And I am looking at considerable less expense than LB faces on her circuit.)

I've been saying it for a long time - stud fees are too high. But, it's not the stallion owner's responsibility to screen mares. It's the breeder's responsibility to breed something that they have a viable plan for.

I've been in this business long enough to know that you can't guarantee you put a nice product on the ground and if you do it long enough you WILL get a dud. But, it does alarm me when I talk to people who - like LB said - expect to be able to sell their horses just because they bred them (and I talk to an alarming number of people with that attitude). And, this is not an attitude that is exclusive of the sales - I am frequently contacted by private sellers wanting me to buy a horse just because they've bred it and they are now ready to make some money from its sale.

[bfinellc]

I breed to race primarily because my mares don't have much commercial appeal (very little black-type, few wins, no runners on the track to date). I am one of the breeders who probably should have just let the mares go off to the pasture. So I might be part of the problem rather than part of the solution. Looking at the big picture I wish I would have just stayed out of breeding and continued the claiming game. Or I could have taken the $100K plus I've spent over the last two years and invested it into the sales, especially at today's bargain prices. That's not to say that I don't think my foals have the possibility of hitting a home-run. One of my mare's is a 1/2 to the top selling yearling at this year's Saratoga Preferred NY sale and she has a really nice Straight Man yearling that is an Iowa bred. She has spent all but two weeks of her life in Florida and (fingers crossed) could make a really nice Iowa bred. And my Spend A Buck mare had a ton of speed and intelligence but got hurt on the farm and was never the same (as a race horse).

I have sent my mares to Pennsylvania because if I am forced to sell (too many horses not enough money!) I think the offspring would be more valuable as PA breds. I would be able to take a small loss selling and hope that I could make up for it with the breeders' rewards. Wishful thinking, I am sure! But it sure hurts to look at all of these breeders that paid 5, 10 or 20K for the stud fees plus boarding costs and their horses go for $1500 at the sale. It makes me glad that I am breed to race but it also makes me think that the stud farms need to do something to help the little guys out....just like they are saying in the Presidential debates..... help Main Street not Wall Street!

[Sock Monkey]

So I might be part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

I don't think you're part of the problem b/c you have a plan. You bred with a purpose in mind and are actively thinking about what you are doing. To me, that's what it's all about - trying to put the best horse on the ground we can and having a plan of action for that horse's future.

Of course, I may be part of the problem too and just be too obtuse to realize it.

Farms NEED to do something to help the little guy out! Totally agree with ya! Now - how do we get that point across??

[serenarider]

I agree that you should not breed if you can not afford to race them. I also think you should not bite off more then you can chew. I do not agree that it is all the breeders fault. I think it’s everyone’s reasonability. They should take a look at the mares paper ect and tell the breeder No. Yes the breeder needs to look at there stock and know what they have. But when you have stallion owners telling you ohh sure I like your mares paper bring her on in. How are they supposed to know the difference. Some people just don’t know how to do all the research so they go by what the stallion owners say. Is it right No but it appears nothing is right in the TB industry right now. They do it in the sport horse world why not in the race world. You have to have your mare approved just to breed her first. Just my two cents.

[bfinellc]

Thanks Sock Monkey! I thought I had a very good plan of dropping well bred foals (at least for those states) in regional markets supported by slot revenue. I am not trying to beat Kentucky. I am not trying to beat Florida. I am trying to beat Iowa. My Iowa breds should be very good Iowa breds. I doubt that my PA breds will be world-beaters but have you seen what maidens and even $5000 claimers are running for in PA? I will settle for a nice, claiming PA bred.

How do we get the stud farms to realize what needs to be done? Well, I am constantly e-mailing and talking to the farms about discounted rates....whether it's a multiple mare discount or just a discount because the stallion suits my mares really well. I think being a regional breeder would make things more encouraging to the big-time stud farms. Look what Walmac did last year giving outside breeders huge discounts to foal outside of Kentucky. I am also letting these stud farms know that I will be trying to get my stallion season via one of the stallion season auctions. I bought two last year at auction and paid 26% of the listed stud fees for a live-foal guarantee season (and one of them is close to the top of the charts in the Freshman stallion rankings). I have also been talking to the farms about foal share agreements. I realize none of them will probably take me up on it but at least I'm trying to get it in their heads that the stud fees are out of line.

[LB]

But when you have stallion owners telling you ohh sure I like your mares paper bring her on in. How are they supposed to know the difference. Some people just don’t know how to do all the research so they go by what the stallion owners say.

I'm sorry but if a person doesn't kow what they have then they certainly shouldn't be breeding it!

It costs a lot of money to breed racehorses. Why would people who have no idea what they're doing want to go to the effort and expense to do so? Not to mention bringing more horses into an already over-populated world. Breeders need to step and take responsibility for their actions. And ignorance is a very poor, and costly, excuse.

[serenarider]

But when you have stallion owners telling you ohh sure I like your mares paper bring her on in. How are they supposed to know the difference. Some people just don’t know how to do all the research so they go by what the stallion owners say.

I'm sorry but if a person doesn't kow what they have then they certainly shouldn't be breeding it!

It costs a lot of money to breed racehorses. Why would people who have no idea what they're doing want to go to the effort and expense to do so? Not to mention bringing more horses into an already over-populated world. Breeders need to step and take responsibility for their actions. And ignorance is a very poor, and costly, excuse.

I agree with you 100% on that one LB. The problem here at least . They like you said could care less what the mare is they just want the money. The problem with some people not knowing is allot. They have the stallion owner telling them sure, they have they consigners, bloodstock agents telling them the same crap to make a buck. It all boils down to the money Then the owner of the mare gets to far in and has no idea how to get out. So we end up with way to meny foals on the ground.

[cedarridge1962]

Letting a stallion manager tell you that your mare fits his stallion is kind of like going to buy a car and letting the car dealer tell you what fits your needs and goals. It is much more prudent to do your own homework and
seek advise from those that don't have a vested interest in selling you a season.