Back to Pedigree Query
It is currently Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:21 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:34 am 
Offline
Eclipse Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:29 pm
Posts: 2423
http://drf.com/news/article/100527.html

You might have to register to read that, not sure, but Splash of Vanilla, a 2yo filly by Ballado Chieftan out of Maid of Gold T B by Guaranteed Gold, is going to be sold at Keeneland in January and is supposedly the first one they'll have had. Now someone tell me....Kevin Lay, Tom Bentley, Triple B Stables... anybody we know? I mean sounds like folks who'd be either on this board in a capacity to talk about unusual TB colors or someone one of our people knows. Just thought I'd ask. I love that they're trying to get it so that palomino TBs are better able to acquit themselves on the track than in the past. Seems like more white TBs are trying to be bred for racing quality too than they used to be. I hope she does well.

_________________
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana"
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:54 am 
Offline
Breeder's Cup Contender
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:27 pm
Posts: 1755
Location: California
What are the odds that this pedigree burns them up on the track?

https://secure.keeneland.com/sales/jan09/pdfs/2176.pdf

The sire is a minor stakes placed winner who's had 2 winners in 6 starters and the first two dams are unraced. There have been no SWs produced in 4 generations. If one of PQs breed to race posters had produced a chestnut foal with this background as opposed to a palomino, he or she would be ripped a new one by this board.

Something no color breeder has ever adequately answered that I've seen--what percentage of production is actually the color you are seeking and how many are plain? What happens to the plain ones? Because if this filly were a plain vanilla chestnut, she'd have no value whatsoever.

If the percentages are say less than 1 in 4 that are the color homeruns, how is that different from the rest of us trying to breed fast horses without access to top sires like A P Indy?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:33 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:53 pm
Posts: 9647
Location: Louisville, KY
The only true race bred colored horse born that I know of, recently, was that white one Deebrand had by Trust 'n Luck. The mating was PURELY for racing stock and they were just stunned by the color of the foal.

_________________
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:36 am 
Offline
Eclipse Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:29 pm
Posts: 2423
Sysonby wrote:
If one of PQs breed to race posters had produced a chestnut foal with this background as opposed to a palomino, he or she would be ripped a new one by this board.


Actually that's not true. We here at PQ are supportive of our posters trying to compete in the sport. We don't rip people a new one if they're trying to bring a foal to the races and if it was some chestnut foal, we'd be throwing lots of support their way even if we don't expect a stakes winner. Now if we're trying to suggest whether to breed the mare to that stallion in the first place or buy the resulting foal, that's different, but no, you're wrong, we would never do that to someone. You might want to rethink that.

_________________
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana"
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:53 am 
Offline
Breeder's Cup Contender
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:27 pm
Posts: 1755
Location: California
First of all, I speak for me and you speak for you. I'm not sure where you are coming up with the "we" thing. I've been part of PQ for years and you're not my elected official....

Secondly, I've most certainly seen it. Did you miss the thread that lead to this thread?

http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... sc&start=0

Or other threads like them in which people post their horses and they are responded with references to trucks and Mexico and blah blah blah. And believe me, their horses were no worse on paper than this one if you put your finger over the palomino part on the page.

My personal feeling is their money, their business and you won't see me gratuitously injecting the s word in breeding conversations without darn good evidence. But given the state of the market in general, I wouldn't celebrate this kind of horse without having some sense how successful the color creation thing is--is it one out of 4, one out of 10, one out of 100? What happens to the plain ones?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:57 am 
Offline
Breeder's Cup Contender
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:27 pm
Posts: 1755
Location: California
madelyn wrote:
The only true race bred colored horse born that I know of, recently, was that white one Deebrand had by Trust 'n Luck. The mating was PURELY for racing stock and they were just stunned by the color of the foal.


I know someone who looked at that horse to buy and actually had her on his short list.

In the end, he took her off. When I asked him why, he told me "I can't buy a circus pony." :lol:

But you're right. I knew the family and none of them looked like her.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:07 pm 
Offline
Darley line
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:19 pm
Posts: 9206
Location: Los Angeles, CA
madelyn wrote:
The only true race bred colored horse born that I know of, recently, was that white one Deebrand had by Trust 'n Luck. The mating was PURELY for racing stock and they were just stunned by the color of the foal.


pics?


how much is this filly worth that is selling?

_________________
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
- Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:08 am 
Offline
Eclipse Champion

Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:57 am
Posts: 2388
Location: Kentucky
Last January (or perhaps it was Nov. 07) there were 2 white colts that went through the Keeneland sale. The first one brought about 80K. He was a very nice looking colt but decidedly lacking in page. The price seemed rather suspect under the circumstances.

Sysonby, in the case of this particular breeding (chestnut to a palomino) there was a 50% chance of getting a palomino and a 50% chance of getting a chestnut.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:09 am 
Offline
Eclipse Champion
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:29 pm
Posts: 2423
Sysonby wrote:
First of all, I speak for me and you speak for you. I'm not sure where you are coming up with the "we" thing. I've been part of PQ for years and you're not my elected official....


Funny the "he or she would be ripped a new one by this board" sounded very "we"-like to me. Whatever. Your example was just proof that Roguelet insists that we collectively shouldn't be like that. And I can say "we" because it's in the rules of behavior for this board plus I try to spend time talking to the nice folks around here so excuse me for not assuming everyone(ish) was like that. Rogue's more than capable of telling people to keep it together, no need for me to claim responsibility. I'm pretty sure we were told that if we desired there to be different standards because we collectively felt there should more open expression, we could say so and no one really seems to feel oppressed. It implies that niceness of a certain kind is appreciated around here.

That thread on the stallion is different--the breedings of yet to be bred foals by the bucketload and responsibility about adding to the gene pool before it happened are certainly something to grumble about. That's not tearing someone a new one. When most folks go 'my mare just had a foal!' they seem to get lots of 'aawww's and 'she's so cute!'s. At least that's what I always see when I look at those threads. Not 'how dare you be so irresponsible you lousy so-and-so!' I was lauding the principle of trying to not breed for just color and it seems so are you---we're agreeing about the main idea and not about, t'would seem, our expression of that view. Weird eh? Shouldn't we be on the same side here instead of getting huffy? I'm not so wrapped up in the idea of the breeding of this particular foal as the concept.

Your point about who gets swallowed up as a plain cast away by the color-breeders is a perfectly valid one. The ones seriously interested in it though don't seem to enjoy throwing money away on a horse without a page AND without interesting color so they maximize their chances and do a lot of research. Well not all of them obviously, but the ones here give me the impression that they know a heck of a lot. You can make the argument that they're a bit screwed trying to breed themselves out of a hole though because the mares haven't really been raced to have achieved anything meriting an upgrade in stallion and the stallions don't have anything going for them to merit better mares. Should they plunk down more cash and overbreed? (Assume that the preservation of the color in the breed amongst racing stock is the objective) Should they go for the gusto? I doubt they're going to give up the colors so how best to improve the stock?

_________________
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana"
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:42 pm 
Offline
Grade III Winner

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:08 am
Posts: 1091
Palomino filly SPLASH Of VANILLA brings $14,000 at Keeneland on Saturday!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:16 pm 
Offline
Grade III Winner

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:08 am
Posts: 1091
Your point about who gets swallowed up as a plain cast away by the color-breeders is a perfectly valid one. The ones seriously interested in it though don't seem to enjoy throwing money away on a horse without a page AND without interesting color so they maximize their chances and do a lot of research. Well not all of them obviously, but the ones here give me the impression that they know a heck of a lot. You can make the argument that they're a bit screwed trying to breed themselves out of a hole though because the mares haven't really been raced to have achieved anything meriting an upgrade in stallion and the stallions don't have anything going for them to merit better mares. Should they plunk down more cash and overbreed? (Assume that the preservation of the color in the breed amongst racing stock is the objective) Should they go for the gusto? I doubt they're going to give up the colors so how best to improve the stock?


That photo of Vanilla selling was her best yet! I love buyers that have the b___s to buy based on their own likes, and don't worry about what the general "scene" is turned on or off by. The racing community will continue to see more color OTT in the future. In a depressed economy it says a lot when people are ready to "step out of the box" and try something new, and actually enjoy it. Personally, my goal is to learn as much from the racing industry and you all, and get the best possible winning mares (not just for jumping and dressage) with strong dam lines and winning progeny, so our young colored stallions have the best get, not just for the show ring, but to be in the winners circle too! How fun would it be if all the top "crust" TB owners threw a few thousand down on the table, bought a colored colt or filly, put it through their top training, ran it, kept it, bred it to a hand full of their top "crust" stallions or mares and had a little fun in their barns. At least it would make for fun conversation at all those prestigious get-to-gethers now wouldn't it!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:42 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:53 pm
Posts: 9647
Location: Louisville, KY
reedhill wrote:
Palomino filly SPLASH Of VANILLA brings $14,000 at Keeneland on Saturday!


And you find that exciting? I would suggest that $14K, for a two year old filly, might net the breeder enough for one Starbucks coffee after it is all said and done and a consignor is used, which did not happen in this case.

There is the cost of getting the mare in foal, which averages $500 around here, not including any stud fee, just vet bills and the like. There is a year of mare care, foaling, followed by the weanling year and registration, the yearling year and now the filly is in her two year old year. Conservatively, all in, on your own farm, it might run $3K a year, if absolutely nothing goes wrong. So the breeder goes to the sale with, say, $9200 in the filly. Now there is Keeneland's $1,000 to put her in the catalog and through the ring. In this case, the breeder took their own filly (smart move) because their little $3800 gross profit at this point would have been nearly entirely swallowed by a consignor. Still, it can cost about $150 a day to take your own horse to the sale - motel room & meals for you and one staffer, grooming stuff, hay, straw & grain, fuel or shipping the horse in, etc. etc. etc. Initially, the breeder had only a 50% chance of getting a palomino. I contend that $3500 or so in profit for three years' work is not really something to celebrate. But, as I always say, it's not slavery if you love it :lol:

_________________
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:14 am 
Offline
Grade III Winner

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:08 am
Posts: 1091
madelyn wrote:
reedhill wrote:
Palomino filly SPLASH Of VANILLA brings $14,000 at Keeneland on Saturday!


And you find that exciting? I would suggest that $14K, for a two year old filly, might net the breeder enough for one Starbucks coffee after it is all said and done and a consignor is used, which did not happen in this case.

There is the cost of getting the mare in foal, which averages $500 around here, not including any stud fee, just vet bills and the like. There is a year of mare care, foaling, followed by the weanling year and registration, the yearling year and now the filly is in her two year old year. Conservatively, all in, on your own farm, it might run $3K a year, if absolutely nothing goes wrong. So the breeder goes to the sale with, say, $9200 in the filly. Now there is Keeneland's $1,000 to put her in the catalog and through the ring. In this case, the breeder took their own filly (smart move) because their little $3800 gross profit at this point would have been nearly entirely swallowed by a consignor. Still, it can cost about $150 a day to take your own horse to the sale - motel room & meals for you and one staffer, grooming stuff, hay, straw & grain, fuel or shipping the horse in, etc. etc. etc. Initially, the breeder had only a 50% chance of getting a palomino. I contend that $3500 or so in profit for three years' work is not really something to celebrate. But, as I always say, it's not slavery if you love it :lol:



Considering all the $1000 foals, yearlings, prospects, and bred mares that went through, not to mention the ones that did not get bidded on, or the breeders that were forced to "let them go" no matter what the loss............we know where a lot of those still end up, read about it regulalrly, considering all that, heck yeah, because buyers of colored foals aren't interested in seeing how fast they can turn a buck once they buy one of those beauties, but to ENJOY trying to make something out of them, and giving them a much longer life than I'd bet 70% of what the average 1K racing prospect gets. The owners/buyers I'm speaking about by the way, would not have to go mortgage their house if their ENJOYED EFFORTS didn't turn out to be grade winners. They would simply continue to analyze how and what to breed them to in order to find that "A+++" nick, that can win. I'll slave to that dream.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:28 pm 
Offline
Grade III Winner

Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:12 pm
Posts: 1024
This filly sells again at the Fasig Tipton 2 y.o. in training sale in Timonium, MD. Her 1f work was certainly not the worst there (nor was it the best) even though she apparently has only been in training since mid-January.

I watched her video - Hip #391 - and dropped by the stall to see her [flat out & napping the first time by]. I think she's in a serious growth spurt right now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:30 am 
Offline
Grade I Winner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:07 am
Posts: 1635
Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks for the update KB! :)

When does the sale go?

_________________
www.TrueColoursFarm.com

Breeders of unique coloured Thoroughbreds & Sport Horses - standing Guaranteed Gold - 16.1hh cremello TB stallion - CSHA and AQHA, APHA, ApHC listed


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group