SCAMMED by DAN , For Sale! Daughter of Rodeo, foals winning!

[Crystal]

Hey Reed,
Your broodmare incentive sounds like a good plan, however like you said being from a warmblood/showing backround (me too) I thought I would give you a little advice. With Thoroughbreds.. all the work is done for you.. The JC, Brisnet, APR, Werk, True, equineline.com.. you dont need to include everything about the horse in your ad. Serious or potential buyers have the resources right at hand to look up any mares they are interested in. It's a great way to help "weed out" the window shoppers.
I brought up showing/non Tbs just to make a point that other breed registries dont have the technology the TB breeder does, so they do have to work a little bit harder to promote a horse. But just chill-lax and watch what goes on, (especially around here) and you will pick it all up ASAP. These folks can be harsh at times, but they make up the bread and butter of the TB world.

thanks,
Crystal

[Hold Your Peace]

Hey Reed,
Your broodmare incentive sounds like a good plan, however like you said being from a warmblood/showing backround (me too) I thought I would give you a little advice. With Thoroughbreds.. all the work is done for you.. The JC, Brisnet, APR, Werk, True, equineline.com.. you dont need to include everything about the horse in your ad. Serious or potential buyers have the resources right at hand to look up any mares they are interested in. It's a great way to help "weed out" the window shoppers.
I brought up showing/non Tbs just to make a point that other breed registries dont have the technology the TB breeder does, so they do have to work a little bit harder to promote a horse. But just chill-lax and watch what goes on, (especially around here) and you will pick it all up ASAP. These folks can be harsh at times, but they make up the bread and butter of the TB world.

thanks,
Crystal

Excellent post.

We have a saying in the commercial Thoroughbred world = "If you have to 'TELL' me about the sire of your horse then they aren't by anything".

This would really go for any male name in a pedigree or any stallion they're in foal to as well.

People active on the commercial side of the Thoroughbred business are used to going to Keeneland sales where there are thousands of horses on offer, and flipping through the catalog they spend no more than a couple of seconds looking at most pages because you can tell immediately if it's anything you'd be remotely interested in actually taking a look at.

And to say "They don't know" what's got a chance or what doesn't is wrong. To make a living in this business you'd better know. You're never going to say a racing prospect or broodmare prospect is sure to be a success, you'd just say they've got a shot to be a success. Nobody could be right that often if they were guaranteeing that something would be a success But conversely there are plenty of racing prospects and broodmare prospects where professionals in this business will tell you with a great degree of certainty that it has virtually no chance of success and on this they're right about 99.8% of the time.

[Sysonby]

Nice post HYP and good points LB--and I thought you were both pretty restrained under the circumstances.

My 2 cents--I see ads like this all the time from people trying to cross market TBs to both racing and to sporthorse folks. Nothing inherently wrong with that but they are different markets looking for different things and wouldn't it be nice if some of the people trying to bridge the gap learned enough about the racing biz to show respect to those people whose money they are trying to extract. Find out why this horse should appeal to racetrackers and put that in an ad. Then when people like LB who are indisputably in the business take their time to offer valuable critique, accept it graciously.

After all, you are the one who's trying to sell the horse. The idea that someone could even get this mare into Tiznow's book (who last I checked was only being booked to SWing or Stakes producing mares) is ludicrous and made the whole ad seem silly and amateurish.

Sorry to be so blunt but contrary to popular belief, at that level this really is a business and not someone's "My Pretty Pony" fantasy....

[reedhill]

SYSONBY you know, it's great to meet you, I have never met anyone yet that was born so all knowing about the racing industry as you are.
WOW, how were you born with all that knowledge?? Unfortunately, I was not born with all that. I have a wonderful life that does not revolve around racing, therefore I have to research as I have time. Do I have a "pretty pony fantasy" sure did, when I was a young girl, I bet you think that is non American too? Call me silly and amateurish all you want, doesn't bother me a bit, I'm actually having fun at what I'm doing unlike many of others out there and will continue to learn along the way. Have a great Sunday I am!

[springboro]

Reed, I gotta wade in here too...

Lots of these folks are in the TB business... they make their living at this. I don't dare to ask many questions, but when they do offer their opinions, I know it comes from experience and being in the midst of the industry.

You're immediately in a different boat ... you're in TN, you're a color breeder, and I don't think you have any real racing experience. That's not a judgement call at all, but I think you're approaching your breeding program from a different angle than many of us are.

I can tell from your posts that you are enthusiastic and well intended, but please realize that Sysonby and Crystal really do know what they're talking about.

Best not to argue too much... a lil humility is advised.

And yes, I was in your spot about 10 years ago. I called down to Keeneland just as proud as I could be, telling them I had a grandson of Bold Ruler. The sales guy asked, "Who's the sire?" I told him and he said, "Never heard of him." I was so offended that he could so easily brush off my horse without seeing that wonderful pedigree! I am so glad I listened, asked questions, and listened more.

Listen to what people are telling you... take it in or leave it. But know they really are in the business of race horses.

[springboro]

and of course, I would always argue that taking your horses through the commercial sales to determine their market value is the most honest evaluation you can get of your breeding program.

I've had some nice horses, some stakes horses and some mares with some really talented 1/2 sibs. My horses have gone through between $3,500 to $15,000. I admit I'm on the lowest end of commercial.

The color does add value to the sales... it can't be argued. But I would argue they're selling solely on their color and that's like comparing apples to bananas.

Again, anytime you have to say a granddaughter of Secretariat or Seattle Slew, you diminish yourself as a hunter/jumper or AQHA breeder who hasn't learned the TB lingo yet.

(Or god forbid, call a registered thoroughbred a sorrel... there are just some ads which make me cringe. )

[reedhill]

and of course, I would always argue that taking your horses through the commercial sales to determine their market value is the most honest evaluation you can get of your breeding program.

I've had some nice horses, some stakes horses and some mares with some really talented 1/2 sibs. My horses have gone through between $3,500 to $15,000. I admit I'm on the lowest end of commercial.

The color does add value to the sales... it can't be argued. But I would argue they're selling solely on their color and that's like comparing apples to bananas.

Again, anytime you have to say a granddaughter of Secretariat or Seattle Slew, you diminish yourself as a hunter/jumper or AQHA breeder who hasn't learned the TB lingo yet.

(Or god forbid, call a registered thoroughbred a sorrel... there are just some ads which make me cringe. )

I do listen and take notes actually. To those who tell me in a kind way. I don't take to well to folks rehashing and bringing up the "Tiznow" comment I made in my ad, which I corrected, even though she was a good nick with him per the computer. It's the people who like to put down others or restate what someone else has already said, just because they have nothing else to ad that is rude.

Your comment about (taking horses to a sale as being the most honest evaluation of ones breeding program) I completely disagree with, and I'd say a heck of a lot of other people would too. I would hate to think what my foal or horse brought at a commercial sale, was the final and only "evaluation" of what mine were worth, especially in a time when the economy is depressed, and the slaughter houses are closed. MAYBE when times are back to normal a sale like that might give an opinion of my stock. I bet the poor folks that had to take a financial bath for the past year and currently, wouldn't want you to think poorly of their breeding programs because that was their only outlet to sell them. I have watched hundreds go through that didn't make a fair price. I feel for them!

(Apples to bananas) That is changing and will continue to change. A few of us actually do care what we breed to and are always trying to add better blood and proven pedigrees when breeding with color. I wish I had the last name Gates or Trump to speed this process, but as a retired nurse and fireman, we do as we can.

(Again, anytime you have to say a granddaughter of Secretariat or Seattle Slew, you diminish yourself as a hunter/jumper or AQHA breeder who hasn't learned the TB lingo yet. Or god forbid, call a registered thoroughbred a sorrel... there are just some ads which make me cringe.)

Not sure what you mean here, but I bet there are a lot worse things in life then calling something a GD if it is, or sorrel even if it's a chestnut. I call mine brown, red, white, black, and yellow all the time to my husband a teenage son

[reedhill]

Back on the market, scammed by DAN!

[reedhill]

VERY SWEET MARE RETURNS BACK ON THE MARKET, AFTER DAN SCAMS RHF!

[Skipitgirl]

Get used to it, happens all the time. You arent the first, nor will you be the last.

[ageecee]

Im confused.


How did Dan scam you?

[reedhill]

Said he had multiple TB stallions that had won. About 150 TB mares, hundreds of head of cattle on Federaly leased land, said he was going to the bank to wire my money for 2 weeks or longer, but when I would call to see if the money was there, it never was, and he always had an excuse why he didn't make it. I lost another buyer because of it. I spent way to much time hearing all about his giant ranches, and how he grew his own feed, and had horses running all over the US! He must have worked for someone that did, or was a complete jerk wanna be, I just hope he gets a good dose of his sh_t back in his face. If anyone else has been scammed by this person, lets get together and try and do something about him.

[ageecee]

Cant you report him to the BBB? or maybe file a police report? Did he do anything illegal?


Does he have any horses for sale? Maybe you can mess with him if he has horses for sale.
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[reedhill]

Cant you report him to the BBB? or maybe file a police report? Did he do anything illegal? Does he have any horses for sale? Maybe you can mess with him if he has horses for sale.
-

I think what gets me the most, is that he bragged on and on about what all he had going on, and said how many thousands he paid for this or that, and continually made up lies why he couldn't get to the bank. It amazes me how much time freaks have to waste of other peoples, and the wild lies they come up with. Dan really went out of his way, even to say that he had already booked SWING TO THE BEAT to ALPHABET SOUP in FL. Now that's sick! I have his address, email, and phone number. Maybe I could call the BBB and see if they have had any scams by him or stollen horses. I couldn't bring myself to mess with someone about thier horse. A lot of times the sale means they can pay bills for another month. He will get what he deserves in time.........

[Langfuhr]

Now, you werent scammed. He didnt take your mare or your money. The correct and proper way to advertise is to simply state that the sale fell thru. Better get used to stories galore if you wanna venture into the tb business