What? $60,000?

ct2346 · Postby **ct2346** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:29 am

I actually went to a couple of thoroughbred sales in NY where they issued numberpaddles. If you didn't have a numberpaddle you weren't bidding.

It certainly removes the subtlety but it prevents the other case.

Would wonder if something in the middle would work. An unnumbered bidding ribbon...spotters would be trained to look for them...

LB · Postby LB » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:07 pm

ct2346 wrote:I actually went to a couple of thoroughbred sales in NY where they issued numberpaddles. If you didn't have a numberpaddle you weren't bidding.

It certainly removes the subtlety but it prevents the other case.

Would wonder if something in the middle would work. An unnumbered bidding ribbon...spotters would be trained to look for them...

The problem with those systems is that they eliminate spontaneous bidding. There's plenty that goes on--especially in a market like this--and nobody, especially not Keeneland, wants to stifle it.

At any given time, you probably have 30-40 people who are sitting in the pavillion either just watching the sale, or waiting for something a few hips out, or schmoozing with friends. (Pretty much everyone who hangs around the sales has credit) Maybe a mare comes in and she isn't reaching her reserve, so the auctioneer stops the bidding and says something like "Come on, take another look at this mare. Forty thousand isn't much to pay for a daughter of AP Indy, in foal to Aragorn."

So people who hadn't planned on bidding, take another look. And maybe they think they can get a good deal and they throw in a bid or two. It happens all the time.

AscotStud · Postby **AscotStud** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:59 pm

I actually went to a couple of thoroughbred sales in NY where they issued numberpaddles. If you didn't have a numberpaddle you weren't bidding

.

The last one in NY that did that that I recall was the Jeff Minton Sale back in 2003 (which has now turned into the NY Breeders Mixed Sale). I bought my fist ever mare at that sale and all I had to do was give my name and address to get a bidding card (if I remember correctly, a lot of bottles of wine between then and now), I think because I was paying cash post purchase. They still had no real idea of how much I had on me.

Like LB said it's much easier at a small sale like that NY one was to get people registered and number them, but it still doesn't really work. Keeneland September or November would take forever with the numbers of buyers they have. I think all you would find is more people just buying for their friends because they couldn't be bothered to go through the process. We look at about 50-100 mares a sale, the last thing we would want to do is spend more time in the pavillion and wait in line to get a paddle number.

jennywho · Postby **jennywho** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:41 pm

Part of the problem is that on your credit app you are required to put down how much money you expect to spend. So they call your bank and find out you have $50k in the account, there's no viable way to stop a person from bidding $75k or more. I really don't think there is a solution other than to hope there aren't too many people out there like her.

The WTBA disaster was different in that they forgot to make sure that the agent really was authorized. They have since rectified that situation.

summerhorse · Postby **summerhorse** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:59 pm

AscotStud wrote:
They ought to go to electronic bidding. The computer would automatically cap your bid

You are able to pay with cash after the hammer drops so that would knock out those people. It would also cut out partnerships or agents who are buying for 5-10 different clients. The logistics make it way more of a pain than having to deal with the occasional slip up.

Not really, they could all establish lines of credit in advance or (if cash) at the time. It isn't like the sales sneak up on anyone!

going4stamina · Postby **going4stamina** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:16 pm

and who could forget the new face of racing?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... le6KcO9IJ0

AscotStud · Postby **AscotStud** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:43 pm

AscotStud wrote:
Quote:
They ought to go to electronic bidding. The computer would automatically cap your bid

You are able to pay with cash after the hammer drops so that would knock out those people. It would also cut out partnerships or agents who are buying for 5-10 different clients. The logistics make it way more of a pain than having to deal with the occasional slip up.

Not really, they could all establish lines of credit in advance or (if cash) at the time. It isn't like the sales sneak up on anyone!

OK, but what happens when a horse you thought you could buy for less then your "electronic cap" flies above it, said horse is at the top of your short list, your friend standing next to you says "I'll take 1/2 if you want to keep going" but then the Price is Right loser song plays. Because even though combined you have more than enough credit to buy the horse (and in the past would have signed a partnership and told accounting the split), neither of you have enough in your individual "cap". The sales company, consignor and seller all lose out.

Also, an agent looking for many clients is running around the barns all day, most of them from out of town are also trying to get out to meetings at farms and elsewhere and sometimes they just lose track of what hip # they are up to and can't get from the top of the hill to the pavillion in time. These agants or even ordinary buyers wouldn't be able to call a friend or partner who is in the ring area to bid and sign on one for you.

It's an ok idea, just a logistical nightmare.

jennywho · Postby **jennywho** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:34 pm

I got carried away bidding on line at Barretts a couple of years ago. I had enough money in the bank, but it was more than I had been approved to spend as I didn't plan on spending THAT much. I didn't get the mare, but the computer kept letting me bid even when I was beyond my anticipated credit so I'm not sure that's much help either.

majxmom · Postby **majxmom** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:52 pm

jennywho wrote:I got carried away bidding on line at Barretts a couple of years ago. I had enough money in the bank, but it was more than I had been approved to spend as I didn't plan on spending THAT much. I didn't get the mare, but the computer kept letting me bid even when I was beyond my anticipated credit so I'm not sure that's much help either.

Wow, I always wondered what would happen if I did that. Yikes, now I'll have to be careful.

I guess that no matter what, you are still obligated to pay in 15 days, so if they let you go over a little, that's their risk. I know they set my credit limit about 5 years ago and have never adjusted it. I figure if I spontaneously wanted to go over the limit, I'd just bid and they'd take my money (I usually bid online). Or I could call the office and they'd approve it right away after they reviewed my record of paying. I bet they wouldn't even run a credit check if it was a reasonable increase. One thing I've noticed about any horse auction that doesn't use a paddle: no matter what the rules are in the catalog about getting credit in advance, they will take your bid and your money even if you haven't signed up in advance. I have never been told I can't pay by check. They don't give you the papers until the check clears anyway, and they know where you shipped the horse. In fact, the ONLY time I've ever filled out that "Request to purchase by check" in the catalog was when I signed up for Barretts online. Usually I just produce my checkbook and the office girls never blink. I'm always kind of amazed how they ignore their own procedures so routinely.

I do remember a situation at Del Mar about 20 years ago where a woman represented herself as a doctor, bid on $150,000 worth of horses, and melted away right after the auction. They never found her, and CTBA had to pay the consignors and resell the horses. After that, they started taking photos of everyone when you sign right after it's knocked down to you.