So I am wondering, for those of you who do this alot, a couple of questions. First, what is more important to me, the low level seller, in a weanling or yearling?? : a first and second dam has lots of foals to race, with winners and some 6 figure winners, regardless of the state they raced in, OR, a 1st and 2nd dam that have lots of foals, with a good and/or expensive stallion, with not that many to race at all, much less winners, but with a grade 1 winner, and a distant dam that is related to horses like Curlin, etc? I dont pay for all the reports, just the cheap ones, so I cant say that any of these babies produced or not, I am strictly looking at race records of produce of the 1st and 2nd dams. I am thinking, for me, as a buyer looking for a broodmare whose babies might have a smidgen of a catalog page for a startup like myself, that these 3rd-5th dams dont mean much to buyers at sales if the first 2 dams havent produced winners. or, do only winners who win big matter, but not the mares who breed to regional stallions for years, but still have produced a good percentage of runners and winners? Sorry for the way I write, i have been told by Griff that no one reads my posts because of my 1 sentence deal, I think, but my computer is a dinosaur, and I cant work at all that office stuff on it!sales question
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
sales question
Just curious as this mare was brought up on B/S thread as being a great buy. Said I would buy her if someone would ship her, but that is another story So I am wondering, for those of you who do this alot, a couple of questions. First, what is more important to me, the low level seller, in a weanling or yearling?? : a first and second dam has lots of foals to race, with winners and some 6 figure winners, regardless of the state they raced in, OR, a 1st and 2nd dam that have lots of foals, with a good and/or expensive stallion, with not that many to race at all, much less winners, but with a grade 1 winner, and a distant dam that is related to horses like Curlin, etc? I dont pay for all the reports, just the cheap ones, so I cant say that any of these babies produced or not, I am strictly looking at race records of produce of the 1st and 2nd dams. I am thinking, for me, as a buyer looking for a broodmare whose babies might have a smidgen of a catalog page for a startup like myself, that these 3rd-5th dams dont mean much to buyers at sales if the first 2 dams havent produced winners. or, do only winners who win big matter, but not the mares who breed to regional stallions for years, but still have produced a good percentage of runners and winners? Sorry for the way I write, i have been told by Griff that no one reads my posts because of my 1 sentence deal, I think, but my computer is a dinosaur, and I cant work at all that office stuff on it!
So I am wondering, for those of you who do this alot, a couple of questions. First, what is more important to me, the low level seller, in a weanling or yearling?? : a first and second dam has lots of foals to race, with winners and some 6 figure winners, regardless of the state they raced in, OR, a 1st and 2nd dam that have lots of foals, with a good and/or expensive stallion, with not that many to race at all, much less winners, but with a grade 1 winner, and a distant dam that is related to horses like Curlin, etc? I dont pay for all the reports, just the cheap ones, so I cant say that any of these babies produced or not, I am strictly looking at race records of produce of the 1st and 2nd dams. I am thinking, for me, as a buyer looking for a broodmare whose babies might have a smidgen of a catalog page for a startup like myself, that these 3rd-5th dams dont mean much to buyers at sales if the first 2 dams havent produced winners. or, do only winners who win big matter, but not the mares who breed to regional stallions for years, but still have produced a good percentage of runners and winners? Sorry for the way I write, i have been told by Griff that no one reads my posts because of my 1 sentence deal, I think, but my computer is a dinosaur, and I cant work at all that office stuff on it!
In my opinion, if you are looking to sell foals, anything past the second dam of a mare you are considering is of no significance, unless she is tail female to something like Best in Show as a third dam. Even with that, if there is no blacktype under the first and second dams, I would pass, UNLESS the first dam is very young, and the mare is her first or second foal. Then I would look at how the family is BEING bred because you will have the chance to get some catalog page being produced as you are producing foals with the mare.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
walaa, I actually posted her because if she's bred to the right horse, by someone in the right regional program, she might make a decent breed-to-race mare. That assumes a breeder/owner or breeder/owner/trainer, who has a reasonable place to keep her & the foal.
If she was commercial, she wouldn't be being placed for a $150 donation to the rescue, and I don't mean that as a slight against her or the rescue. I like her, but don't have the room for another mare, nor does she match enough of my criteria to make an exception, so I just made sure others who might have room would know about her.
Her paper is already better than lots of breed-to-race mares & she had 38 starts & 4-4-6 record but there are more mares who meet that criteria available now than ever - but there's really no lower end of the commercial market right now - people in regions either breed their own or claim ones already at the track.
Honestly - if I had felt she had serious commercial value, I'd have taken the trailer to pick her up rather than post about her.
(And if by chance she proves me wrong & produces the next Triple Crown winner . . . I'm sure someone will resurrect this post & remind me again why I don't make my living betting on horses!)
If she was commercial, she wouldn't be being placed for a $150 donation to the rescue, and I don't mean that as a slight against her or the rescue. I like her, but don't have the room for another mare, nor does she match enough of my criteria to make an exception, so I just made sure others who might have room would know about her.
Her paper is already better than lots of breed-to-race mares & she had 38 starts & 4-4-6 record but there are more mares who meet that criteria available now than ever - but there's really no lower end of the commercial market right now - people in regions either breed their own or claim ones already at the track.
Honestly - if I had felt she had serious commercial value, I'd have taken the trailer to pick her up rather than post about her.
(And if by chance she proves me wrong & produces the next Triple Crown winner . . . I'm sure someone will resurrect this post & remind me again why I don't make my living betting on horses!)
mare
Thats what I was thinking. With her 1st dam, with the cheap reports I pay for 
she, at 66,000, was the highest earner, the others together hadnt even made 50,000 I think. Second dam had a big winner, but lots of others out of good and/or expensive stallions, that did not race or won peanuts. So I was thinking for a starter mare she really didnt have that much potential as a sale breeder after all. thats what I was wondering, if that really good dam 3 and farther generations back really means that much at a sale. Lots of these horses are related when you start going back and then looking at who all these others babies are bred to, etc. Im looking at a couple others with lots of foals, lots to race, all types of winners, but bred to regional stallions, but fees are paid, which is a huge head start rather than waiting 2 years for that 150 mare to see what happens. I really cant wait for the winter sales I have been saving for 1 1/2 years and now can finally go buy 
But I have enough to try and see if I cant get a nice mare or weanling now as well, and I get all excited when I see ads like that and everybody starts saying how what a great deal it is! Then, not being as experienced as others in the sales business, I start second guessing myself, even as I realize this mare or that mare isnt as great a deal as it sounds, if you look at the actual immediate family, not who the 3-5th dam produced, bred to this and that stallion. Thanks for all insight I appreciate all honest opinions, just not nasty ones, so no nastiness I am just asking what people look for in a cheaper sales prospect. I know what I look for, but as I will be selling, want others opinions, to see if I am headed in the right direction with my personal thoughts on the sales
she, at 66,000, was the highest earner, the others together hadnt even made 50,000 I think. Second dam had a big winner, but lots of others out of good and/or expensive stallions, that did not race or won peanuts. So I was thinking for a starter mare she really didnt have that much potential as a sale breeder after all. thats what I was wondering, if that really good dam 3 and farther generations back really means that much at a sale. Lots of these horses are related when you start going back and then looking at who all these others babies are bred to, etc. Im looking at a couple others with lots of foals, lots to race, all types of winners, but bred to regional stallions, but fees are paid, which is a huge head start rather than waiting 2 years for that 150 mare to see what happens. I really cant wait for the winter sales I have been saving for 1 1/2 years and now can finally go buy But I have enough to try and see if I cant get a nice mare or weanling now as well, and I get all excited when I see ads like that and everybody starts saying how what a great deal it is! Then, not being as experienced as others in the sales business, I start second guessing myself, even as I realize this mare or that mare isnt as great a deal as it sounds, if you look at the actual immediate family, not who the 3-5th dam produced, bred to this and that stallion. Thanks for all insight I appreciate all honest opinions, just not nasty ones, so no nastiness I am just asking what people look for in a cheaper sales prospect. I know what I look for, but as I will be selling, want others opinions, to see if I am headed in the right direction with my personal thoughts on the sales 
I would definitely look for the big black type under the 2nd dam. But looking at the third dam gives you an idea as to potential, especially if its a Phipps family or similar. Sometimes there will be only one or two mares in a generation and the quality horses will not show up, but pop up in a subsequent generation. In some cases if the 2nd dam is also young then that part of the the pedigree can be enhanced as well. Sometimes, it helps to have an 'angle' going at the family where perhaps the family is a grass marathoner family and the first dam has only been bred to dirt sprinters. Or perhaps a major bloodline or nick has been ignored because the owner of the first dam owned a stallion and just kept breeding to that one trying to make the stallion, not the mare.
jm
jm
Run the race - the one that's really worth winning.
One of the things I like about this site is the female family function ie having 4 generations on one single page. It shows depth of production in an easy glance vs pulling a report on equineline. Also I think it's important to know something about each dam....ie did they belong to a farm that bred only to their own stallions without a lot of thought as to if that was the best horse for her? Or was was this someone who only owned a few mares who bred only regionally? Knowing how to discount lesser performing progeny can be valuable knowledge. A mare that was bred to < 5k stallions that produced 4/5 winners vs a mare that was a sw herself and failed to produce winners when bred to cream of the crop stallions. Those are the things that make me think and think and think..
