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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:27 pm 
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Suckling

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:29 am
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Location: Southern Ont, Canada
Another bad day for the breeders in Ontario, especially the smaller breeding outfits. Gross sales, median price and average price were all down around 20%. This Saturday's Open Session should be brutal.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:11 pm 
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It's the same all over.

winds

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:44 pm 
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Allowance Winner

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:20 pm
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Location: Ontario
Very true. Last year my boss who is a financial person told me to expect the sale to be worse this year than last. He was correct. It will correct but it will be one of the slower things to come up in our economy.

Tough, we are a small breeder in Ontario. :(

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:42 pm 
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Grade III Winner

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Location: Ontario
All I can say is WOW...maybe the geniuses that run the sale will finally revamp it to make some sort of sense. The way it has been run for years has been a farce and it is only getting worse. Why bother giving away the money they do at Woodbine if nobody wants to spend any money to get it.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:58 pm 
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Newborn

Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:03 pm
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The only thing that will work is hold a 2 day sale with NO Select or Open and let the public decide what the yearlings are worth. IMHO
Another thing that bothers me are half the yearlings are never groomed or prepared properly for inspection no wonder people think it's a joke!!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:47 am 
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native diver wrote:
Another thing that bothers me are half the yearlings are never groomed or prepared properly for inspection no wonder people think it's a joke!!!!


I didn't go this year, but I have never noticed that. Perhaps it is because they know half won't get a bid and will be back in their pasture. I would never pass by a yearling who hasn't been twitched, tranqed or worse to have his ears and muzzle done with clippers. Nothing like making them head shy or stupid about their ears for the rest of their lives. I guess because we breed to race and don't prep yearlings, I am used to looking at them looking less polished. This is Canada. ;)

It also pisses me off when I get a broodmare back from KY in Sept or Oct. looking like she is going in a line class. She was living out or wouldn't be so sunbleached and will continue to live out. What is the point of trimming? It is almost freezing here and she needs every bit of hair she has. I want them comfortable and healthy. I can look past a little hair. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:13 am 
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Location: Ontario. Canada
Ascot, you are so right. Something needs to be done, and immediately!

Where are all the big American buyers that would be coming to our sales and spending big bucks to get Ontario breds to race at Woodbine for the great purses, with the big name American trainers that took stalls away from the Canadians? Didn't notice too many of those on the sales results.

ND, you've got the right idea about the sale structure. Was discussing this with another breeder while watching the walking ring. Put them all together, and let the public decide which ones warrant the big prices. How they get chosen for the select sale, is, after all, based on the pedigree analysis of their 'expert', who if they don't happen to like the stallion, won't give you a second thought. The only person who should be making that choice is the buying public.

About the grooming, there were horses there that looked as if they had been pulled out of the field last week, had front shoes slapped on and stuck on a trailer. I think the point that ND is making is that if you can't make an effort to show the yearling to its potential, then it drags down the quality of the whole sale.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:06 am 
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Grade III Winner

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:12 am
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Location: Ontario
IMO they should have 100 SELECT (actual select) horses sell on Monday after the Sales Stakes, then sell the rest of them all day Tuesday, and like the others have said, let the buyers sort them out not the consignors.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:48 am 
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Allowance Winner

Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:22 am
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Location: Ontario, Canada
That is an interesting idea Ascot, you might be right about lowering the numbers of the select portion. There were certainly not 250 horses that fit into this "select" catagory in my opinion. I'm not even sure that they shouldn't restrict the open portion of the sale as well, there were some lovely horses but there were also some that had no business being there at all, look at hip#341, there is only ONE winner listed under the first four dam's.... I don't think I have ever seen this type of offering before and I'll bet her connections are blaming the economy for the fact that there was not a single bid on their horse. Some need to be weeded out of the system, not everything that is a TB deserves a chance at racing.

It was a buyers market for sure, there were some fantastic deals to be had, I sat on my hands the whole time even though it was killing me. I have enough horses at the moment and the cost's of keeping them is killing me slowly. Costs are up, economy is bad, market will rebound in time, just have to try and wait it out.

Some U.S. buyers did show up, I saw Maggie Moss, Buzz Chance, Mike Pino, Webb Carroll, Pin Oak and Ken & Sarah Ramsey bought stock in the first sale. There were also some regular buyers that didn't show up this year and that hurt the overall numbers.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Grade II Winner

Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:23 am
Posts: 1473
Location: Ontario, Canada
A very dismal sale :( I felt sorry for a lot of people.

Jane - the blank spots on the pedigree for hip # 341 were actually there to allow us to make notes or doodle :wink: Someone mentioned to me that 2009 has the lowest number of mares bred since the 70's. I personally think that is great news (providing that the horses that were bred are quality horses).

I sold a horse in the Select and was happy with the result and practically gave one away in the Open. I count my self as one of the lucky ones though.

I think it shows a lack of showmanship when horses are shipped to the consigner without being clipped, bathed or heck how about halter broke??! :x How can someone expect much for their horse when the horse is wild?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:27 am 
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Location: Ontario. Canada
Now that the dust has settled, does anyone else agree with me that a letter should be sent to the CTHS, its president and the board of directors, making known our concerns about the sale and what it has become?

I realize the economy had a lot to do with the blood bath, but what should they be doing to get this sale up to par with others?

The best suggestion here has been the idea of letting the buyers deterimine what is select and what is not. Have two days of sales, and let the good horses go for what they are worth, and the others bring what they should.

Are any other breeders interested in getting together to discuss this and to draft our concerns and suggestions to make this sale better? Please pm me.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:43 pm 
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Maiden Special Weight
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:37 am
Posts: 195
Location: Ontario
I disgaree, but that's just me.

I would expect that the CTHS would be happy to hear a presentation of any suggestions in person at one of their meetings. Call Julie and I'm sure she'd set it up. Then one could get feedback from them and one could discuss the merits and real world logistics. Sending a letter is not effective (again, just my opinion). Or better yet, who's your regional rep? Get a meeting with them and they should take your suggestion to the table. They can also likely go over pros and cons etc. That's what we elect them for...
Or call any of the people on the sales and marketing committee:

SALES & MARKETING COMMITTEE
Peter Berringer
Tim Orlando
Mark Casse
Yvonne Schwabe
Bernard McCormack
R. Glenn Sikura
Gail Wood

There was a meeting a while back (I think it was the one where they were talking about cancelling the 2YO in training sale and also deciding where to have the sale (Woodbine vs offsite, etc.) At that meeting they had people standing up with a million opinions on how to make the sale better. Every suggestion had people applauding and groaning. (My favourite was "Why don't they have the mare selected with the best conformation anymore? [Red ribbon I think]. Gail Woods answer was funny "Cause it doesn't mean a damn. Half of them couldn't run"
It was very clear to me that being on the exec committee was a thankless job. You can do no right running this thing.

They have looked at everything upside down and sideways on how to improve things. If there is a new great idea, I know they'd think about it.

It's an association of members and this one in particular has very little consensus agreement on anything.

Personally, I think it's more about what the breeders are breeding and the general economy, not the sales format. But again, that's just me.

I wish you luck however you go about it.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:13 pm 
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Suckling

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:32 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Ontario
.... and the headline for the CTHS Ontario "Open" Yearling Sale should read as follows...

Gross Sales, Average Price and Median Price down 35%

IMO it has more to do with an absence of buyers than anything else.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Maiden Special Weight
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Location: Ontario
Forgot to ask a question (I really want to know, so I hope you don't take these points as sarcastic):
When you said " to get this sale up to par with others? " what sales are you talking about? What others? What would have been a good sale average or median for the '09 that would have made everyone happy? '08 levels?, '07? We couldn't have expected '06 levels could we?

Not sure if I stated this before, but the '09 crop was bred after the '06 sale, which by all definitions was a peak year, and I didn't go back to look at the stud fees in ON in '07, but I assume they went up based on the stud fee landscape that year.... Even with the 10% slide and 15% or so slide the next year, the 40 or so % haircut from '06 is tough to swallow, but that's a product and market thing, not a marketting thing. Again just my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for continuous improvement,We should try and improve everything, everywhere, I just don't think sales logistics is such a big contributor.

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I've always thought that the mares , sires and straight legged foals make the sale.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:20 pm 
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Leading Sire

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:18 pm
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average and median price down 35%..

So is my house and so is my 401k

And, the default rate of commercial real estate mortgages has yet to hit the fan.

I'm buying high ground with good water and stocking up on ammunition, salt and deep woods off

griff

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