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 Post subject: Do's and Dont at a sale
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:50 am 
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Hello
Im looking for some advise. I am going to my Barrets sale on Sat- two days before the sale- to look at the yearlings.
What should I do and not do?
What is curtesy and what is going too far?
Karen


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:28 am 
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Karen,
Have a list with you of the yearlings you want to look at. Have them organized by consignor. When you get to each consignor's barn they will have you fill out a sheet with a list of the yearlings that you want to see from them. They will bring out each one for you to look at. You can ask them questions. Most consignors like to talk with you unless they are overwhelmed with clients at the time you come. If you want a second look at any of them that's fine too. But I would pare down your list a bit before the 2nd looks.
Good luck and happy hunting!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:40 pm 
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If you have no intention on buying any horses and you are only going to observe, don't ask a consignor to pull their horses out for you to look at.
Tire Kickers are abhorred at the sales, especially when they want to look at the most popular horses. These horses have been taken in and out of their stalls all day and get tired.
There are numerous lookers that come to the sales with no intent of buying and they only get in the way of the buyer. If there is a horse you want to see but have no intention to buy, wait until the day of the sale to see the horse at the ring.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:52 pm 
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Rachel Alexandra wrote: "If you have no intention on buying any horses and you are only going to observe, don't ask a consignor to pull their horses out for you to look at.
Tire Kickers are abhorred at the sales, ......"

That is a very patronizing statement. Karen's post asked for some advice, not for a whipping.

You could have stated your opinion in a more sensible, educated fashion.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:35 pm 
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Doc and George
Thank you very much. I do plan to bring money. I remember correctly to have an account first.
Thank you very much to you two!
Its a tough world.
Karen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:20 am 
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Karen, good luck and happy shopping! You'll have a ton of fun! :D

Yes, be sure to register as a buyer before the sale. There's a form in the cat.

Wear comfy shoes 'cause you will be on your feet a lot.

There is a pretty standard way of doing things when you ask to see a horse. The handler will bring the horse out and a representative from the consignor may or may not be available to chat with you. You can see the horse stood up and walk. Ask before you touch the horse (it's preferable if you don't). The sales staff expects questions to be fairly brief - it's not like looking at a riding horse prospect. When you are done, say thank you and let the handler know they can put the horse back. A rep for the consignor should have a book with vet information in it that you can request to see.

You can also look at horses in the back ring just before they go in. There should be a sales representative with the horse that can answer questions and you can request the horse be stood up, etc., too. Not the best way to do it, but good for a last check and any impulse buys. :)

You'll probably want to go into the pavillion to bid. Catch your bid spotter's eye when "your" horse comes in and he'll help you through the process. If you get confused or have a question, ask him.

If you buy one, your bid spotter will give you a ticket to sign and you'll keep a copy that you will then take to the office - it takes about 30 mins before they have everything ready despite warnings all over saying you MUST head DIRECTLY to the office - and settle up. The office will give you Coggins and a receipt, but foal papers will be mailed later.

Once you have settled up, the office will give you a stable release - that needs to go to your van. Ask your van company how they want to handle that (so it's their fault if it gets lost, as that is a headache). Your horse can stay overnight at the sales ground, but it might be moved to a different stall. The office can tell you. (They were talking about people "abandoning" yearlings at KEE on another thread, but this is common practice, as vans need to wait until they have a load).

As soon as you sign the ticket the horse is yours. Don't expect much from the consignor after that. They will not help you load, they will not loan you a shank, etc. You can go back to the barn to see your purchase, but stay out of the way and leave your horse in the stall.

If you have questions, don't be afraid to ask. But, just remember - it's not like buying a riding horse and nobody has a lot of time to spend with you and they very likely don't know much about the horse anyway. You can safely assume that the horse has a current Coggins, has been dewormed, is up to date on vaccines, etc., etc. You can ask how s/he is to deal with, but they probably have only known the horse for a few days. Don't ask for the horse's life story or go in with the attitude that the consignor is hiding things from you. If you are unsure if a horse will be in your price range it is acceptable to ask the consignor if there is a reserve. They should be able to give you an idea.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:42 am 
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Sock Monkey's post is great. I just want to expand on something she said.

The moment the hammer falls--assuming you have the winning bid--the horse belongs to you. If it flips over and breaks its neck on the way back from the sales ring, it's your loss. So if you are planning to insure your purchse, speak to your insurance agent ahead of time about getting "fall of hammer" insurance. That way you're covered from the moment of purchase no matter which horse you end up buying. After you've signed the ticket, call your agent and give him/her the hip # and the price (or amount you wish to insure for.)

If you are unable to move your new yearling within a couple of hours, make sure that he has hay and water in his stall while he waits. That responsibility has now passed to you and his consignor and prvious owner will no longer take care of him.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:18 am 
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[quote="Rachel Alexandra"]If you have no intention on buying any horses and you are only going to observe, don't ask a consignor to pull their horses out for you to look at.
Tire Kickers are abhorred at the sales, especially when they want to look at the most popular horses. These horses have been taken in and out of their stalls all day and get tired.
There are numerous lookers that come to the sales with no intent of buying and they only get in the way of the buyer. If there is a horse you want to see but have no intention to buy, wait until the day of the sale to see the horse at the ring.[/quote]

I personally think this is BS. I have been to many sales with no intention of buying. It's how I learned. I never found an annoyed consignor or staff. You can't see all the intricacies (sp?) in the ring. Granted I always stayed in the level that I knew I would eventually purchase in and never looked at the horses I thought would bring too much money. How do we grow the industry while keeping everyone in the dark as long as possible?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:27 am 
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Quote:
I personally think this is BS. I have been to many sales with no intention of buying. It's how I learned. I never found an annoyed consignor or staff. You can't see all the intricacies (sp?) in the ring. Granted I always stayed in the level that I knew I would eventually purchase in and never looked at the horses I thought would bring too much money. How do we grow the industry while keeping everyone in the dark as long as possible


There is nothing wrong with tire kickers looking at a horse in the back walking ring, but it is an imposition to ask consignors to pull horses out of the stall when you are only window shopping. Of course, everyone looks at lots horses they do not buy. But, the reason for looking at horses in the barn is to narrow down your list of horses and make decisions regarding vettting, etc. If you simply want to determine any flaws that might impact the sales price for your own learning process, you can do that in the back ring.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:54 am 
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I would think this particular sale is going to be pretty bad for consignors and I think they'd be thrilled to have ANYONE bother to look at their horses.

I suspect they'll be sitting back there like the Maytag repairman bored out of their minds.

I've been to sales like this where maybe you swing by a barn just to eyeball a horse in it's stall that you had some connection with and the consignor will actually beg you to let them take it out for you even though you've told them you're not really interested in bidding on it.

People are right that if you've got a $10,000 budget you don't go to Keeneland and ask to see the A.P. Indy - Azeri colt in book 1, but that's clearly not going to be an issue at this particular sale the OP is talking about.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:13 am 
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AGAIN - NEVER met a cosignor that wouldn't show me a horse or acted upset at taking one out. I've been ignored at busy consignments (most likely I lost patience and left). I'll agree to disagree - but at any moment that "tire kicker" could turn into a buyer (as I eventuallydid) - maybe not at that sale but could be the next and why would you want that person saying "Soandso's a jerk - I'm crossing off everything from his consignment".
They may think "he's not a live bidder anyway" when I walk away but at least they are professional and courteous


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:24 am 
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Great advice in these posts. The fall of the hammer insurance is an important item, if you are spending enough for insurance to make sense. Especially in light of the van fire after the KEESEP sale in which six yearlings died.

If the consignor is MOBBED and their walk ring is jammed, I will usually move on to another barn and plan to return later. My time is as important as theirs and I think general courtesy rules apply. Always thank them if they got a horse out for you.. sometimes there is a colored sticker on the horse, indicating a catalog change. The consignor will have a printout of the catalog update, which you can certainly ask for if you are interested in the horse. If you are shopping on a BUDGET, and there is a horse you like but by a very expensive sire, it can save you BOTH some time if you ask about the reserve before the horse is pulled out. If the reserve is ABOVE your budget you know before you look at the horse.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:29 am 
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A lot of good tips included in this thread. I would add:

- As you write your notes about each horse on its catalog page, make sure you have a good shorthand system ready, so later that night you can evalaute and remember what you saw. When you look at 100-150 horses in a day, they will blur together by the time Pina Colada hour rolls by.

TORF (toes out right front) - 1 is better than TORF -2. Same for LK -1 vs LK -2. You won't have time to write down everything long - hand. At least I find that I don't. Do however write neatly. If your handwriting sucks, as mine does, you'll be trying to figure out what you wrote hours later. Not good. But - have a system for recording your findings.

- Too, its probably good to have a Pass/Fail system. If a horse fails - don't reconsider it later.

-Always thank the handler, but never verbalize any evaluation.

-Feel free to ask questions about the obvious - cuts, punctures, fever rings.

-If a horse passes your investigation and you're interested, mark the page as such. Colored post it notes really help here...particularly if there is a matter of degree.

-If the horse passes your investigation - do go to the consignor right then and ask to see a copy of the vet report. They will almost always have one there. If they don't - skip the horse.

-If you're really interested - vet the horse yourself. This will add a good deal to your cost. If you're spending 50k its worth it. If you're spending 5k and you trust/recognize the consignor, roll the dice.

Good luck...and have fun.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:35 am 
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A consignor would be nuts to show any impatience in this market though anyone who just went through everyday of Keeneland is likely beyond burned out at the moment. I once went around to narrow the list for a trainer of horses when he had too many to buy/look at. I could definitely see a "sharper" attitude when I brought him around to see the top choices. ;)

I caution strongly against bidding on a horse in the ring that you haven't inspected. I can't tell you how many horses I have been given over the years that were impulse bids. One trainer had finished shopping for his clients and saw a ch. colt with a nice head, shoulder and topline walk in the ring. There was no bid, until his, the only one. The colt was so offset, he didn't make it as anyone else who saw him predicted.

Another client bought a cheap mare with horrible conformation both in her body and under her tail. She was miserable, a bad producer, foundered and I eventually put her down as I couldn't give her to her past trainer, breeder or owners and would not give her to a stranger.

The overhead lights in the sales ring make them look better than they are IME.

Happy Shopping. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:05 am 
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While it's true that tirekickers are frowned on at Saratoga or the first day of Keeneland with the wellbred expensive horses, at a sale like this you will probably be welcomed with open arms because it gives these horses a chance to come out of their stalls and possibly catch someone's eye. I go to the different Barretts sales a lot and I don't know how many times I've heard something like this "Was that 295 you just showed them? Add that one to my list." For a horse with a so so page that might get them a sale or at least more than 1 buyer interested.

Also I have to laugh about the acronyms. Every regular buyer has them so that they don't end up writing a novel on the page. Besides the usual TORF (toes out right front); ORF (offset right front) and TILF (toes in left front), I know someone who uses JAH (just a horse) and the all encompassing NO (shoot me if I ever buy an animal that looks like this).

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