For those that were there, what were your impressions of the sale? What types of yearlings and mares brought decent prices? Where were the bargains?
Why does a consignor pick this sale over Keeneland - January?
Fasig Tipton Ky sale
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Re: Fasig Tipton Ky sale
liberty wrote:For those that were there, what were your impressions of the sale? What types of yearlings and mares brought decent prices? Where were the bargains?
Why does a consignor pick this sale over Keeneland - January?
I don't know about the consignor choice, however, I was there...
My opinion is that while the top end deserved their prices, many of the cheaper(lesser catalog page, etc) ones did not deserve the prices they took....I started laughing out loud when someone paid 14k for an open mare that just recently ran for a 5k tag...What are these buyers thinking?
I think if one wants a cheap, well-bred mare with a nice page, one should take the time to scrounge the claiming ranks across the country....It is time consuming but their are some serious steals out there..
At sales like these it's all about the page..Period...
I had intended to go, but my farmhand quit last week and I ended up with all the chores instead... I feel in a way I was "rewarded" because I had spent HOURS/DAYS with the catalog picking out mares, only to see prices like liberty describes for, well, nothing. As in not much catalog/race record. I was watching the sale online. I can do much better dealing directly with trainers for ottb fillies, the local auction yard near me, etc... I can get a dozen mares, better bred with better families, for what a mare when through F-T for on Monday.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
Actually, while I agree there were a couple "head scratchers", for the most part the sale was easy to decipher.
Mares in-foal to commercial sires (including those in their first and second year), sold well. Many of these not only reached the stud fee, but exceeded it.
Open mares and mares in-foal to "cheap" stallions, or non-commercial stallions were definitely punished. In fact, for the most part open mares were almost completely shunned. The best value and possibly many "steals" were to be found in this group. I still don't understand why someone would spend a couple thousand to send a mare to a low-end stallion, then put the mare in a sale. The breeding usually does nothing to help the mare (in some cases, hurt her), and they are out the fee.
Overall, I don't think the yearling market was all that bad. The better individuals brought better money and the inferior ones struggled. Also, those yearlings by unknown or very low end stallions struggled considerably. There were a couple yearlings which represented decent value, but I didn't look at their x-rays to know for certain. A couple brought a little more than I thought they deserved, however for the most part it seemed a fair sale given the quality.
Mares in-foal to commercial sires (including those in their first and second year), sold well. Many of these not only reached the stud fee, but exceeded it.
Open mares and mares in-foal to "cheap" stallions, or non-commercial stallions were definitely punished. In fact, for the most part open mares were almost completely shunned. The best value and possibly many "steals" were to be found in this group. I still don't understand why someone would spend a couple thousand to send a mare to a low-end stallion, then put the mare in a sale. The breeding usually does nothing to help the mare (in some cases, hurt her), and they are out the fee.
Overall, I don't think the yearling market was all that bad. The better individuals brought better money and the inferior ones struggled. Also, those yearlings by unknown or very low end stallions struggled considerably. There were a couple yearlings which represented decent value, but I didn't look at their x-rays to know for certain. A couple brought a little more than I thought they deserved, however for the most part it seemed a fair sale given the quality.
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SilverGhost
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Fasig Tipton
The guy who runs The American Thoroughbred Review ( www.ThoroughbredReview.com ) bought some horses at that sale. Anybody have an opinion?
Looking at Mr. Hall's purchases, especially in regards to his website, I notice a degree of inconsistency.
Hip 204... no on-track success and in-foal to a sire listed as a "worst value". (His website promotes racing success above "family" when looking at broodmares). While it is true that the foal could easily get back the purchase price (below the stud fee), there were probably better values that stayed within those parameters suggested by his website.
Hip 327... again, we see a complete divergence from the "racing over family" thoughts espoused on his website. Having said this, it is very, very hard to argue with the purchase of a young mare who is a full to Ten Cents a Shine at that price point. Had I been in the market for another mare, I would have looked at her more carefully... and probably made him pay a little more for her.
Hip 436... was probably a very good purchase. I would like to see a better listing of her starts and the quality of those races, however from appearances it seems she showed some quality at 2. I imagine this was for a breed to race barn, however there is enough there to possibly catch the imagination of the commercial market if bred correctly. This purchase somewhat "meshes" with those "racing over family" thoughts... however, if one looks at the broodmare sires a couple generations back doesn't it look as though this "family" was well-intended. The presence of Gann as owner doesn't hurt either. This one, in my mind, supports both racing and family and was probably a very, very good purchase at that price.
Hip 468... doesn't fit anything. However, I don't see how one could go wrong with this mare at that price. She is a 1/2 to a stakes winner, she is out of a young, apparently talented, mare, and she is by a KY Derby winner who has yet to prove to be a broodmare sire failure. Really nice purchase, provided she vets...
Hip 499... would like to see her race record (types of races), but it looks like she had a little bit of ability. She is by a fairly hot sire, and represents an outcross to many commercial lines (and with Mr. P being 4 back, she can probably handle more of him also). And, she is a full to a very, very talented graded stakes horse, (also a 1/2 to another stakes winner). However, if you take out her immediate family members, does she warrant such a price? Does she fit in the "runner over family" mold? It can be argued either way, because outside of her immediate siblings, there isn't much that stands out... even if you recognize the names. I think she may be able to get a commercial horse based on her siblings, even if the family isn't commercial and she also fits into the pattern of success for a breed to race type because there has been such success from non-commercial types of stallions.
Overall, I commend Mr. Hall on the job he did. Good values for the money. However, this limited sampling produces results which point to the problems with espousing a particular "theory". Everything is open to interpretation, but I would say that in a couple cases, the purchases did not support the "theories" put forth on his website. It doesn't mean either is wrong... it just points out that there are far more variables to consider, and anyone who is seriously in this business must make allowances and be able to interpret a multitude of information quickly.
I think he did an excellent job... at the sale. However, I'm not a complete supporter of the "racing over family" arguement. My primary problem with this line of thought is simple... the quality family is in the blood and often times this class is reflected in the individual, regardless of race record. (Yes, there are "runts" and "obvious culls" in each family, but they are always very apparent and should be avoided.) However, one often cannot decipher all the events which may have led to an inferior racehorse. Poor training, injuries, accidents, illness, competition, and attitude all can detract from one being able to draw a strong conclusion as to aptitude. Also, I will always have a hard time going against lessons extrapolated from the great Tesio.
Hip 204... no on-track success and in-foal to a sire listed as a "worst value". (His website promotes racing success above "family" when looking at broodmares). While it is true that the foal could easily get back the purchase price (below the stud fee), there were probably better values that stayed within those parameters suggested by his website.
Hip 327... again, we see a complete divergence from the "racing over family" thoughts espoused on his website. Having said this, it is very, very hard to argue with the purchase of a young mare who is a full to Ten Cents a Shine at that price point. Had I been in the market for another mare, I would have looked at her more carefully... and probably made him pay a little more for her.
Hip 436... was probably a very good purchase. I would like to see a better listing of her starts and the quality of those races, however from appearances it seems she showed some quality at 2. I imagine this was for a breed to race barn, however there is enough there to possibly catch the imagination of the commercial market if bred correctly. This purchase somewhat "meshes" with those "racing over family" thoughts... however, if one looks at the broodmare sires a couple generations back doesn't it look as though this "family" was well-intended. The presence of Gann as owner doesn't hurt either. This one, in my mind, supports both racing and family and was probably a very, very good purchase at that price.
Hip 468... doesn't fit anything. However, I don't see how one could go wrong with this mare at that price. She is a 1/2 to a stakes winner, she is out of a young, apparently talented, mare, and she is by a KY Derby winner who has yet to prove to be a broodmare sire failure. Really nice purchase, provided she vets...
Hip 499... would like to see her race record (types of races), but it looks like she had a little bit of ability. She is by a fairly hot sire, and represents an outcross to many commercial lines (and with Mr. P being 4 back, she can probably handle more of him also). And, she is a full to a very, very talented graded stakes horse, (also a 1/2 to another stakes winner). However, if you take out her immediate family members, does she warrant such a price? Does she fit in the "runner over family" mold? It can be argued either way, because outside of her immediate siblings, there isn't much that stands out... even if you recognize the names. I think she may be able to get a commercial horse based on her siblings, even if the family isn't commercial and she also fits into the pattern of success for a breed to race type because there has been such success from non-commercial types of stallions.
Overall, I commend Mr. Hall on the job he did. Good values for the money. However, this limited sampling produces results which point to the problems with espousing a particular "theory". Everything is open to interpretation, but I would say that in a couple cases, the purchases did not support the "theories" put forth on his website. It doesn't mean either is wrong... it just points out that there are far more variables to consider, and anyone who is seriously in this business must make allowances and be able to interpret a multitude of information quickly.
I think he did an excellent job... at the sale. However, I'm not a complete supporter of the "racing over family" arguement. My primary problem with this line of thought is simple... the quality family is in the blood and often times this class is reflected in the individual, regardless of race record. (Yes, there are "runts" and "obvious culls" in each family, but they are always very apparent and should be avoided.) However, one often cannot decipher all the events which may have led to an inferior racehorse. Poor training, injuries, accidents, illness, competition, and attitude all can detract from one being able to draw a strong conclusion as to aptitude. Also, I will always have a hard time going against lessons extrapolated from the great Tesio.