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 Post subject: Where to sell ...
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:34 am 
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A friend of mine is planning to sell three of his yearlings at the Keeneland September sale. They are all by American sires. Two of the three are colts and very good looking, the fiilly is not 100% correct and not particularly big but has an attractive page and a very nice body. My concern for my friend is that wouldn't it be better to be a big fish in a small pond by selling them at our CTHS sale seeing as they are all Canadian breds? The colts would both be in the select sale here, the filly would be in the preferred. I guess there is no right answer unless of course you have a crystal ball :wink:
I just worry for him as he had a bad sale last year (I know that just about everyone did) and is depending on good sales results in order to feed his horse habit for the future.

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Based on the information you've given, my guess would be that your friend would probably be better off selling in Canada. Are the yearlings by American sires or Kentucky-based sires? Would they be entered in the Keeneland sale by a consignor that has enough clout to get them placed in the correct book(s)?

Bear in mind that the entries for KeeSep closed last Monday. There may be a bit of wiggle room there--for the right consignor--but if they're not already entered, it's a decision that needs to be made quickly.


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:12 pm 
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There "might" be a desire for Canadian-bred horses depending on their physical and pedigree. Perhaps he could split them up and sell part at one sale and part at another? Keeneland September is really a very large sale and it is easy to get lost there if you don't really have a quality product and even then some quality horses don't always bring what the seller wants and/or needs - perhaps FT October might be a better choice, which is a nice sale but smaller and gives the added advantage of another month of growth.

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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 2:48 pm 
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I would think when you have around 5000 yearlings selling at Keeneland September Sale the Canadian Bred's stand a good chance of being lost in the shuffle, they would have to be absolute stand outs on paper & in the flesh. If he/she is determined to sell in the U.S. I like the idea CLH had of selling at the October FT sale.

I would make sure the yearlings are consigned with a strong barn who can really promote them. Hill N Dale would be a good bet for that, because of his Ontario/Canada Connections, I think John Sikura has a good understanding of the Ontario Incentive programs offered to owner's of Ontario breds. Hill n Dale are movers & shakers & I think if anyone could get the job done they more than likely could.

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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 5:18 pm 
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Another thing to consider is that if the horses go through the CTHS sales, they are then eligible for the Sales Stakes, and those offer some good purses!


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:56 am 
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The sires are Tapit, Badge of Silver and Why Why Why. My friend already has a consigner and I am not sure that he is really well connected in the whole scheme of things. However they have done business together for years. Perhaps when he finds out which book his yearlings get in it might influence his decision on where to sell. He entered the yearlings in both sales.

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 Post subject: y
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:54 pm 
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Sires are one element at the sale. Those you mention are very average sires in a KY sale, but may be more valued in a smaller regional sale.

More important is the mother. If she is not a stakes producer or half to a stakes horse or producer, get in the smaller sale asap.


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 Post subject: Re: y
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:26 pm 
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tbrace wrote:
Sires are one element at the sale. Those you mention are very average sires in a KY sale, but may be more valued in a smaller regional sale.

More important is the mother. If she is not a stakes producer or half to a stakes horse or producer, get in the smaller sale asap.


I disagree. The first thing most shoppers want to know about a sales yearling is, who's the sire? So that's the first thing I'd consider in making my decision.

And Tapit is considered to be well above an "average" sire in Kentucky.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:59 pm 
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I have to say I agree with tbrace, the mare to me is pretty crucial .. great sire or not. Love Tapit and yes he is a decent sire but the mare really is crucial and her family. Tbrace you raise some really strong, valid points and if it were me I would take that advice :)

btw: Careless Jewel Tapit-Sweet and Careless (Hennessy) is being pointed toward the Grade 2, Shuvee, May 15th at Belmot Park.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:38 am 
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Ditto LB about Tapit, I too think he is considered to be more than "average", and although the mare's page DOES play into consideration you better believe the stud fee is where your "babe" will be placed in the book.

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 Post subject: sires
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:25 pm 
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You are correct about Tapit.

I think it is a mistake, however, to think that a sire can make a mare in a sale.

Try to find a big time sire's offspring, in the early books, bred out of a mare without a page. If it happens, it is very rare.

If you breed a $20,000 sire to a $5,000 mare you will most often not even get the breed fee back, and so on up the price scale.

Most experienced breeders will tell you the first thing to do is get a good mare. The axiom to breed the best to the best means a good sire and a good mare, not one or the other.


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 Post subject: Re: sires
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 6:49 am 
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tbrace wrote:
You are correct about Tapit.

I think it is a mistake, however, to think that a sire can make a mare in a sale.

Try to find a big time sire's offspring, in the early books, bred out of a mare without a page. If it happens, it is very rare.

If you breed a $20,000 sire to a $5,000 mare you will most often not even get the breed fee back, and so on up the price scale.

Most experienced breeders will tell you the first thing to do is get a good mare. The axiom to breed the best to the best means a good sire and a good mare, not one or the other.


You and I are actually on the same page--we were just speaking about two different things.

I totally agree that the mare's page is at least as important as the sire, if not more so. However I still stand by my statement that the first thing a buyer asks at a sale is "Who's the sire?"

The reason for that is simple: most likely the buyer will know who the sire is and that information will allow him to make certain assumptions about the potential price and quality of the yearling. When looking at a lot of horses, it's a shortcut to fitting them into slots.

Nobody says "who's the dam?" because unless you're talking about Azeri chances are the buyer isn't going to recognize the name--even if the mare comes from a great family or has produced a couple of stakes winners.

So while the sire is not necessarily the most important criteria in a sales yearling, it is the one that buyers focus on first.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:52 am 
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Not having seen them, I would recommend the Tapit be sold in KY. Realize that this crop of Tapit was conceived in a "bubble year" and therefore will not have the pedigrees/catalog pages of future crops. However right now Tapit is so hot that if a yearling can walk soundly into the ring it will bring 6 figures!

So your friend's Tapit is unique and also has the basic law of supply & demand working to his advantage. It is not a large crop for Tapit so the colt will be compared with relatively few and it will not be as difficult to be a "standout" among the smaller number of Tapit's in the sale.

Realize also that trainers get "sire crazy" and most do not really understand pedigree in the first place...Keeneland September is definitely where I would sell this horse. Good luck!

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