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 Post subject: Fasig Tipton July Sale
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:15 pm 
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The catalogue for the sale is now available on the website: www.fasigtipton.com


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:56 pm 
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Silly question for the day that occurred to me after thumbing through the catalog this afternoon: Just how many Mr Greeley mares was Latent Heat bred to in 2008 and why?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:08 am 
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I'm surprised there was no discussion of the sale. Fasig Tipton is calling it solid; I found it a little depressing. At least people are still shopping and it looks like the market has probably reached its bottom.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:31 am 
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Its hard to really judge a limited sale like Fasig Tipton July unless you really see what people are selling and what is being paid for specific horses. I didn't go but I've been in contact with one of the buyers who looked at all of the horses over the course of several days and he said he saw a lot of nice horses but only a couple of physical standouts. He was shut out on a few but snagged one because the pedigree was relatively weak. Interspersed were what he described as "Shetland ponies", "bad walks" and "bad physicals".

Overall, he agreed that the "just a horse" type wasn't selling and people are really soft on the unproven sires right now. The fact that Fasig Tipton devotes a day mainly to freshmen used to be a strength-they may have to rethink that strategy next year if this continues.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:31 am 
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They did make one change--until this year their new sire showcase featured first and second crop horses. This time, it was first crop only. Perhaps they'll drop it altogether in 2011. But everyone expected the prices to rise on day two (after the new sires were finished) and they didn't.

I thought the physicals were quite good overall, though there were more small or smallish yearlings than I was expecting. Buyers certainly have the opportunity to be very picky, but I saw plenty of good looking yearlings that got passed over or barely brought stud fee (thought I didn't see their film or scopes.)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:03 am 
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Perhaps the larger number of small/smallish yearlings reflects the new KBIF inspections - fewer horses are being born "early" but not reported until after Jan 1.

A year or so ago I met a fellow who had been a stallion handler for most of his life and he told me of several stakes winning horses he bred, over the years for the stallion owners, who were "September foals" that were not reported until February of the following year. Now, with inspectors coming out to see mares in December, it is more difficult - unless you don't nominate those mares.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:39 am 
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madelyn wrote:
Perhaps the larger number of small/smallish yearlings reflects the new KBIF inspections - fewer horses are being born "early" but not reported until after Jan 1.

A year or so ago I met a fellow who had been a stallion handler for most of his life and he told me of several stakes winning horses he bred, over the years for the stallion owners, who were "September foals" that were not reported until February of the following year. Now, with inspectors coming out to see mares in December, it is more difficult - unless you don't nominate those mares.


Could be although I doubt that those early foals were ever as common as conspiracy theorists would like to believe. By the way, nomination has nothing to do with who gets checked. It's JC registration and an early due date that get you on the list.

I'd bet that the size issue had more to do with the fact that it's July and not September. The reason that the Keeneland July sale was discontinued was because most consignors preferred to present a more mature yearling to the buyers.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:06 pm 
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Hey LB and Madelyn!

I agree with both of you concerning those Thanksgiving and Christmas foals. While I totally agree the "problem" was over-blown, it was still happening. While the total number of early surprises was probably low, the F-T July sale was THE place to sell them. Keep in mind, the intention for having such a "forward" foal had less to do with performance than it did for sales... and by September the advantage was reduced.

You also cannot discount the "needle" factor. I think, or at least hope, changes in procedures, more industry and buyer awareness, and less looking the other way, has probably led to a reduced use of "additives". Hopefully, we will see this trend continue into September... I had been told there were distinct signs buyers had had enough in 2009 sales.

Another factor, at least in my mind, might be found in the overall education of buyers. Horsemen know what a "yearling" is supposed to look like. I had heard that over the past year, unless an "anomaly" had a very good and real reason to be an "anomaly", it wasn't necessarily a good thing to be big and blingy. It seems of the horses being sold, reputable horsemen are buying a bigger share. Maybe this is because there are fewer people with fewer dollars for the snake-oil agents to charm, maybe it is because the few people with this money have an idea of the industries reputation, who knows, but it cannot be a bad thing.

I think the economy, the industries reputation, the current state of the industry, all have played a huge role in the sales downturn. It is possible this might be a good thing in the long run, especially for those paying the bills... and most of all the critters themselves.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:21 pm 
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[quote="LB..... It's JC registration and an early due date that get you on the list.

.....[/quote]

If the breeder lies about the cover date and reports, say, a Feb 10th cover and a Feb 19th foal, they probably won't get on the list. One year I had my mares inspected TWICE by the KBIF inspector, yet my first foal wasn't due until late March. I hadn't reported any early covers.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Also... I forgot... in the event someone wants to point out that initially Keeneland canceled its July sale due to the reduced number of foals in the MRLS years. LB knows this much publicized reason, however she is simply stating one of the primary unpublicized reasons for its complete discontinuance.

On another note... I haven't been around the sales now for 4 yrs. and really haven't kept up much with things... other than those told to me by friends I still have in the industry. With this in mind....

I noticed that Three Chimneys was only able to sell 1 out of 8 (really 7, one was an out). I've heard there have been big changes in their sales division... was this a coincedence or did they really misjudge things this badly?

Also... Legacy looks like they misjudged things also, only selling 6 of 15.

When did Kenny McP become such a big buyer? Glad to see it. Also glad to see Davant's name. Who is RAUT, LLC? Anyone know?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:18 pm 
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Medaglia d'Oro Filly Brings $350K at FTKJUL
Posted: 12:54 PM ET
FTKJUL
hip 245 Yearling F Medaglia d'Oro--High in the Park (Ascot Knight) $350,000
Breeder: Brereton C. Jones (Ky)
Buyer: Deborah A Easter, agent
Consignor: Brereton C. Jones/Airdrie Stud, agent

So who is Debbie Easter representing now? She's not w/Ken Luke anymore, is she?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:11 pm 
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Well she bought that filly for the McNeely's.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:22 pm 
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Always nice to hear from you, KAL! You ought to stop by more often.

re the "needle factor". As I'm sure you know, steroids have been banned and it's easy for buyers to check and make sure that their purchases are in compliance (it's a check-off box on the purchase receipt.) Some buyers, like Darley, test every purchase. Others spot check those who look like they need it. :wink: This new system has brought about a new era of sales prep. There have been very, very few positives since testing began several years ago.

I agree, MRLS was the "public" reason. But Lane's End among others had already shifted the majority of their yearlings over to the later sale. And Keeneland had seen the writing on that wall.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:37 pm 
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madelyn wrote:

If the breeder lies about the cover date and reports, say, a Feb 10th cover and a Feb 19th foal, they probably won't get on the list. One year I had my mares inspected TWICE by the KBIF inspector, yet my first foal wasn't due until late March. I hadn't reported any early covers.



The KBIF inspectors' job is to ensure that mares are living on the KY farms they're supposed to be living on in order to be eligible for KY breeder's awards. That has nothing to do with when the mares are due to foal. The KBIF--Kentucky Breeders Incentive Fund--couldn't care less about that.

It's the Jockey Club who sends out inspectors to check to see that early foaling mares are still in foal in the last week of December. And the JC already knows when the mares were bred. So lying isn't going to help much.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:00 pm 
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Glad to hear the steroid rules, which went into effect in 2008, are having an impact. It was really getting out of hand. Still think this might be a very significant reason for seeing "less advanced" horses at the sales now. As with everything else, it takes a couple years to see the real effect. Gotta' hand it to the sales, they seem to at least be trying to bathe and dress the pig.

By the way, a really good source led me to believe there would have been positives in 2008 but for policitical and publicity reasons things were somewhat "muted"... with complete implications that things would have to change going forward... which was probably the best way to handle it.

It has only been in the last year or so that I have even watched a race, let alone cared what was happening industry wide. Funny, now as removed from the industry as I am, it is even more obvious that there needs to be a national office, a national voice, for regulation and advancement of the sport.

I still say it is never going to happen the situations in California, New York, are downright laughable... and demonstrate that the factions of politics will never wish to cede control or power. They will kill the goose first. Kentucky's situation is a little different... but still sad. Overall, whether it be individuals or politics, too much greed, too much power, and too many self-interests based in both have, are, and will continue to cripple the industry and sport. I'm pretty darn glad they don't impact me anymore.

Of course, I do miss the critters... don't miss the bruises, breaks, and heartaches they cause... but I do miss them. (Although my golf game has improved tremendously and my allergies aren't near as bad.)

If every owner was forced to spend time feeding, brushing, and generally caring for their stock.... I can guarantee changes would be made in racing, (and training), which would greatly benefit the horse. Of course, ownership would go down also... (ex: actually had a lady ask me about the smell and how long that "smelly air" stays in the lungs. I told her it doesn't and that if you're still smelling something once you get away from the critter, you might have ruined those designer boots.) :roll:


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