Pedigree Query

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Do these horses come with their papers?

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threegoodlegsst wrote:The papers stay with the ITHA (Il Thoroughbred Horsemans Assn). The horses are not for racing however, if there came a need for copies of the papers at a later date it may be arranged.

My personal opinion is that you do a horse a disservice by separating it from its papers. A copy isn't good enough. There are lovely failed racemares out there who are the mothers of lovely, loved sporthorse foals. BUT 99% of the registries won't allow those lovely foals to be registered without ORIGINAL Jockey Club papers on the dam.

So a breeder will turn down a mare with duplicate papers, in favor of an equal (or sometimes lesser) mare WITH papers, whose foal can be registered.

Of course, if your mares go with a 'not to be bred' requirement, the point is moot. But that also decreases the pool of potential new owners.

I was wanting very much to buy Oro Gatita; alas I have absolutely no use for a broodmare without papers.

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If I am going to pay money for a horse, I want the transation to be my PURCHASE of the horse. I have learned the very hard way that not getting the horse's papers at the time of the transaction causes big long term headaches. Oro Gatita is a nice mare but not nice enough for the headaches of no papers.

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Registration papers are the de facto ownership of the horse. Since Galloping Out is retaining title to the horses, in my opinion it should also keep ownership of all the horses' bills for upkeep.

Threegoodlegsst, why don't you work with the horse identifiers at your local track to tell the JC to mark the papers 'not to race' & then send the original papers with the horse?

That way if the riding mare with a lovely temperament & conformation injures herself, she may find someone who wants her as a broodmare, but only if she comes with her papers.

Since there is such a prejudice against mares as riding horses among many pleasure riders, I think you need to do what you can to make them valuable & letting them keep their papers for future broodmare purposes is one way to do that.

The ad on HorseClicks for Oro Gatita includes, "She is an easy handler and can be a great trail horse or brood mare for someone."

Yet, if she's being sold without papers, her foals would be grade. Respectfully, that seems counter-intuitive. I totally understand keeping them from racing, but I agree with KBEquine that having the JC mark the papers might be better for the mares, especially if you're advertising them as potential broodmares. You might be missing out on some great homes for them otherwise.

As it stands right now there is no such thing as marking the papers not to race. That is considered defacement and the new owner can request a non-defaced replacement set. The only way to 100% prevent a horse from racing again is to return the papers to the JC and report them as being sold without pedigree. That too would render any foal's grade however so not the greatest solution. They really need to invent a follow up set of papers that show that the horse has officially moved on from his racing career permanently. Maybe make the background a different color or something for a small fee?

Lauri, that is a great idea. Kind of like foreign registration papers are sometimes red or green depending on where the horse is coming from.

Kind of like a re issue of registration papers "Broodmare Prospect Only" or "Breeding Prospect Only". The Jockey Club could re issue the certificate only after the old one is turned in.


I understand the organization is trying to protect their horses from racing again.

However, a stable-mail data program will notify you in a horse has done a published workout or is entered into a domestic race. Papers could be released with a horse safely. Papers not going with a horse like previously mentioned makes them "grade". Grade horses get lumped into a population considered mutts and hence less valuable and desireable as breeding prosects.

When trying to rehome horses into a vast flooded market where horses are so easily passed upon, try to leave as many avenues open for them as possible.

forever riding homes do not exist,i learned the hard way and selling an OTTB mares without papers is nearly impossible as most warmblood registries demand you supply original papers for mare approval..so by selling them without papers you are cutting back their chances of a good life by 50% or more.If anyone breed them to produce just another grade baby without future ... this is really stupid,so many need homes and end in canned dog food already,come on don't be idiots.And why not racing if sound and of racing age???cause they might prove someone else is a better trainer or you missed something?Even in the worst racebarns in America i have not seen starved dying horses unattended,but that is something i see all the time in "homes"...So don't give me the crap of low level barns,i know some are terribles but not as bad as where i pick back my rescues after years sometimes...Just ask Oscar(Sharp Critic)about so-called "homes"And on top of it most of those mares are not sound anyway,so who will take them...honestly...

Sylvie,
You hit the nail on the head. There is no such thing as a forever riding home. Anyone remember the statistics of how long horses are kept by the purchaser after being purchased for riding. i saw it once, but don't recall, it was a matter of months.