Pedigree Query

The catalogue is online for anyone interested.

Financingavailable is in this sale??? Quite shocked to see that entry.

There are 45 Weanlings, Ken & Sarah Ramsay will be up from the U.S. & are consigning a number of horses themselves.
Financing Available is in there but I am sure if she doesn't bring a stronge price she won't be sold. I love that mare!!

www.cthsont.com Winter Mixed Sale, Catalogues should be available I believe the first week of november.

I loved Financingavailabe as a racehorse she was a lot of fun to watch.

My guess is that they are not too impressed with what she is producing, her first foal by Smart Strike only brought 20k and the next one by Philanthropist sold for 24k, she has an Awesome Again on the ground and sells in foal to Old Forester... will be interesting to see what she brings.

Overall it looks like a stronger sale than usual for the winter mixed.

I think there are some nice offerings in the sale. Financing Available has a nice foal on the ground this year and her yearling (27k ) sold for a decent sum, considering he was in the Open portion. Financing Available is by no means a big mare, the only fault her foals have is they too are not big... annnd her first foal is already a winner at 2

I am hoping to go to Keeneland to see some of the OS weanlings that are being offered. I'm curious to see how they look in comparison to those that are being sold locally.

The fact they went from Smart Strike to Philanthropist shows what they think of her. She looks like a hell of a runner, but how do you go from a leading sire to a nothing sire without destroying your millionaire mares value. If she was in foal to something halfway decent they might have got something for her at Keeneland instead of sending her through the winter "sale" if you can call it a "sale", the way horses are given away up there.

Terrapin Flyer - I do not know who you are but you are mistaken. You shouldn't post your assumptions as someone else's opinion. You obviously have no idea what her connections think of her.

And fyi the "nothing sire" you speak of is among the leading sires in Canada. Oh and I guess you think Mark Casse doesn't know what he's doing either seeing as he purchased the resulting mating of Financing Available x "Nothing sire"

They say your stallion is only as good as the mares you get to them , maybe they are really trying to make the stallion. I think its what they need to do , I don't think SMART STRIKE WILL MISS HER

I see a lovely racemare who was bred to Smart Strike (a leading sire), Philanthropist (a leading Ontario sire), Awesome Again (a leading sire) and in-foal to Old Forester (another leading sire in Ontario). Keeping in mind that our Ontario sired races are worth a boat-load of money I have no problem with stallion selections.

I'm just saying its odd that a mare who did what she did on the race track was bred to 2 top class stallions and then sandwiched between those 2 studs were a couple horses who stand for around $5k, one of them only has 15 winners from 2 crops . I doubt if either of them has ever had a winner in the US, away from the Ontario Sires races which bost their earnings to make them look much better.
Mood Swings it doesn't matter who I am, I'm calling it like I see it. A young millionaire that is being offered in foal to a stallion that only people in Ontario know. If she was in foal to a mid level KY sire or even open she would be much more valuable to someone outside of Canada.

Are the rules like New York where you have to breed the mare back to an Ontario stallion if you want to drop a Kentucky sired foal in Ontario and be eligible for that program?

they have residency rules in Ontario so I'm guessing she would fit that category without having to breed back to a Ontario Stallion. Stronach has a bunch of mare foaling Canadian breds that are by Ky stallions year after year.

I agree that it might seem odd but don't forget, there is a big advantage to having a talented racehorse who can run in the restricted Ontario Sired races. The Canadian breds who are by non Ontario stallions don't have nearly the same opportunities to make money.

Terrapin Flyer wrote:I'm just saying its odd that a mare who did what she did on the race track was bred to 2 top class stallions and then sandwiched between those 2 studs were a couple horses who stand for around $5k, one of them only has 15 winners from 2 crops :roll: . I doubt if either of them has ever had a winner in the US, away from the Ontario Sires races which bost their earnings to make them look much better.
Mood Swings it doesn't matter who I am, I'm calling it like I see it. A young millionaire that is being offered in foal to a stallion that only people in Ontario know. If she was in foal to a mid level KY sire or even open she would be much more valuable to someone outside of Canada.

I guess it makes complete sense that she is being offered here in good old Ontario, where she will be appealing to the local crowd - don't ya think? Philanthropist's leading runner has competed against some Top U.S. sired horses and kicked their ass, Old Forester has some very promising young horses, one of which has now also beaten top U.S. sired horses as well. FYI both will stand for $10,000 in 2012. I do not disagree with you that with our Ontario Sired program earnings can be deceiving. And I can differentiate top American based runners with local OS top runners, I'm just sick of hearing people harp on locally sired horses and how they don't compete with their American counterparts. It is a totally different ball game here.

Here is some food for thought, might put your "15 winners from two crops" into perspective...

#1 on Leading second crop sire list:
Bernardini x A.P. Indy, 2003

Stands for $75,000 in 2012

Darley, Kentucky

118 - Runners

43 - Winners

That puts him at 36% winners from starters.

#8 on Leading second crop sire list:
Philanthropist x Kris S., 2001

Stands for $10,000 2012

Gardiner Farms, Canada

38 - Runners

15 - Winners

That puts him at 39% winners from starters.

Zahrah wrote:Are the rules like New York where you have to breed the mare back to an Ontario stallion if you want to drop a Kentucky sired foal in Ontario and be eligible for that program?

No the rules are a little different here. The following are different options:
1. - The mare has to be in Ontario by Oct. 1st of the year prior to foaling.
2. - The mare has to be a resident in the Province for 150 consecutive days around the time of foaling.
3. - The mare has to be bred back to an Ontario sire.
4. - The mare has to have been purchased at a recognized auction/ or Private sale and be in Ontario within 30 days.

Jane, I understand the Ontario Sires program is very lucrative, she is a prime exaple of it. At the time she was bred to Philanthropist he wasn't a leading sire. There were many other options of proven stallions that would have seemed better.

Mood Swings, did you happen to catch Pender Harbors race at Parx, He got his ass handed to him by US horses. Please name a top US Sired horse he has competed against, let along defeated. Also, US sired Canadian Breds don't equall US competition. The crew of one of the horses that went up to run in the Plate were joking around that the horse would be running for a tag in the States if he wasn't Canadian bred and Plate eligible. The filly who was 2nd or 3rd in the Canadian Oaks was claimed for $15k 2 starts before in the States.
Can build me a little graph showing how many Grade 1, 2 or 3 wins that the 2 stallions you praise have compared to Bernardini I would love to see it...never mind, just show me how many non restricted races they have won compared to him...ok, just nevermind. Oh ya and how many of those 15 winners in restricted Ontario Sires company and how many of those 15 won vs open maidens. Thanks

I know its a totally different ball game up there, you run a 9 month meet and are pretty much sheltered from any outside competition aside from the big graded races, which still don't draw the best horses from US and Europe. Thats why most people up there think there horses are much better than they are. It's easy when you keep beating the same horses and don't go anywhere else to run (aside from a couple top class operations).

As for being offered in good old ontario its too bad she deserves better than to go through a sale with an average of about $3k.