Back to Pedigree Query
It is currently Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:02 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:58 pm 
Offline
Newborn

Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:03 pm
Posts: 9
So all we have to do for a drastic change is get rid of the "cull sale" stigma that people like to associate with that sale. Maybe they should get rid of that sale all together. Maybe the open sale also? Why not even the select sale too? It amazes me how a few people categorize horses for the sales and segregate the sales from each other to discourage buyers from coming and selecting what they think is a quality animal. Under the current system buyers would have to travel here three times to go to all sales, with time and money at a premium few do.

A more proactive approach would be to have all the sales combined over a long weekend say in October at a different location where housing that many animals for a 3 day sale is feasible. Put all the sale horses through the ring on consecutive days and attract the buyers once a year to Ontario and let them decide what is "Select" or not.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:22 pm 
Offline
Allowance Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:48 am
Posts: 464
Location: Ontario. Canada
Gallop 58-not a normal or slightly better than normal sale!

http://www.cthsont.com/news.php?news_item_id=1014


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:03 am 
Offline
Suckling

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Winnipeg
anyone know whether Financingavailable was sold after the sale? (RNA at $50,000)

_________________
trying to breakeven and have some fun


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:19 am 
Offline
Suckling

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Winnipeg
Terrapin Flyer wrote:
Barcaldine,

You get screwed even more up there if your horse has been claimed or gets claimed. For some strange reason any claimed horse is disqualified from getting the 20% for being Ontario bred.


because of high cost of getting a yearling to the races, a lot of Ontario owners prefer to claim young horses rather than buy yearlings. Losing 20% of purse is meant to discourage this practice.

_________________
trying to breakeven and have some fun


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:59 pm 
Offline
Maiden Special Weight

Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:20 pm
Posts: 116
Quote:
because of high cost of getting a yearling to the races, a lot of Ontario owners prefer to claim young horses rather than buy yearlings. Losing 20% of purse is meant to discourage this practice.


By the looks of the sale prices up there it ain't working.

1) You don't want to lose a horse you put money into don't run them for a tag
2) This is the only province/state that I know of that punishes owners for claiming a horse bred in that province.

I think its more of a way to keep money in the higher ups pockets and away from the smaller guys. Woodbine likes to boast the big pots, but when you really look at it purses have dropped 20% plus the 5% or so they dropped over the past few years for a large percentage of the horses on the grounds.

Native Diver, I agree that they need to consolidate the sales. Let the buyers sort through the horses they want rather than offering a "so called" select sale, then a week later (when everyone who traveled up for the "select" sale is gone) run the rest through when there are no buyers left in town. I can't even comment about the Mixed Sale it's probably the worst sale to sell a horse at in North America, followed closely by the open yearling sale they have up there. Most if the people I know that have gone up there have not returned the following year after seeing the what some of the "select " horses look like.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:28 pm 
Offline
Allowance Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:48 am
Posts: 464
Location: Ontario. Canada
Terrapin Flyer wrote:
Quote:
because of high cost of getting a yearling to the races, a lot of Ontario owners prefer to claim young horses rather than buy yearlings. Losing 20% of purse is meant to discourage this practice.


By the looks of the sale prices up there it ain't working.

1) You don't want to lose a horse you put money into don't run them for a tag
2) This is the only province/state that I know of that punishes owners for claiming a horse bred in that province.

I think its more of a way to keep money in the higher ups pockets and away from the smaller guys. Woodbine likes to boast the big pots, but when you really look at it purses have dropped 20% plus the 5% or so they dropped over the past few years for a large percentage of the horses on the grounds.

Native Diver, I agree that they need to consolidate the sales. Let the buyers sort through the horses they want rather than offering a "so called" select sale, then a week later (when everyone who traveled up for the "select" sale is gone) run the rest through when there are no buyers left in town. I can't even comment about the Mixed Sale it's probably the worst sale to sell a horse at in North America, followed closely by the open yearling sale they have up there. Most if the people I know that have gone up there have not returned the following year after seeing the what some of the "select " horses look like.



This!!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:46 pm 
Offline
Maiden Special Weight

Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:20 pm
Posts: 116
Quote:
It's a regional market, and that's just the way it is


How many other Regional Markets segregate 50% of their yearlings to outside buyers?

Quote:
20% of Ontario foals go to Keeneland alone. When KY skims the cream, what can you expect? That's just how life works.


If the cream of the Ontario crops go to Keeneland, than why is the sales commitee (which is made up of consignors) afraid of offering the "rest" of the yearlings together, unless they are stacking the deck to make sure their horses are skimmed too and the rest flounder a week later.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:12 am 
Offline
Newborn

Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:03 pm
Posts: 9
What I don't understand, the sales are so bad and most people know this, what possible reasons are behind bringing the new Stallions up here??? If the November sale is for Culling why would we breed to sell the broodmares and use the yearling sales? How do we support these Stallion? By the end of next year the racing in Ontario most likely will have one track left. So where do we race? Ontario Sired will mean nothing at other tracks in North America.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:30 am 
Offline
Grade II Winner

Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:23 am
Posts: 1473
Location: Ontario, Canada
salepard wrote:
anyone know whether Financingavailable was sold after the sale? (RNA at $50,000)


She has not been sold.

native diver wrote:
A more proactive approach would be to have all the sales combined over a long weekend say in October at a different location where housing that many animals for a 3 day sale is feasible. Put all the sale horses through the ring on consecutive days and attract the buyers once a year to Ontario and let them decide what is "Select" or not.


I actually think this isn't a bad idea at all. The winter mixed sale is proof that there aren't many serious buyers in attendance. I think the important question to answer is - WHY? Forget the Ontario Sired program for a moment because not all of the horses offered were OSS horses. Is it quality? There were a few very well bred mares offered. Is it timing? The current sales pavillion is unfortunately very limited with regards to stall numbers. A real shame because of the history and its perfect location. However maybe it's time that change is embraced because the fact of the matter is the results speak for themselves.

_________________
"People come and go but horses leave hoofprints on your heart"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:44 am 
Offline
Newborn

Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:03 pm
Posts: 9
I couldn't agree more!!! Now the question is how??????


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:30 pm 
Offline
Maiden Special Weight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:37 am
Posts: 195
Location: Ontario
Native Diver: re: How?, The same way it's always been. If you want to change things join the CTHS, stand for election, get involved and change it the only way it can be changed. From within. You are welcome to try the "OCCUPY CTHS" approach but I suspect it won't work.

Failing that I'm sure they'd love to see a well reasoned, data laden business case on why one super sale would be better for the industry in the whole. No one has made the case.

The yearling sale is held as select and open (IMO) because two halves are better than a whole. At least you get some serious buyers willing to look through the "select" ones. I think if you asked them to look over every horse they'd just say no thanks. If one has select horses I don't think you complain. You are thankful. The bickering usually comes from those that would be in book 12 at Keeneland...In reality it's about the quality of the horses. No amount of sales calendar gymnastics will help without quality stock. In general if you want "market" prices go to Keeneland. If you know what you're doing, you can be the big fish in the local pond (the odd one sells better at home than it would at KEE, especially if it has local heros upclose in the pedigree)
There are legit arguments sometimes re: criteria for select vs. open, but again this is usual more whining than substance. If you don't like the CTHS it's easy to sell in Keeneland for their true value.

Just me 2 cents.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:10 pm 
Offline
Maiden Special Weight

Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:20 pm
Posts: 116
Quote:
If you want to change things join the CTHS, stand for election, get involved and change it the only way it can be changed.


What then for those thats can't run for CTHS but might want to occasionaly drop and maybe sell a foal in Canada?

Quote:
I think if you asked them to look over every horse they'd just say no thanks. If one has select horses I don't think you complain.


Everywhere else in NA doesn't have problems finding buyers to sort through 400 horses over 2 or 3 days, I have no problem spending a week combing over horses elsewhere, most of my clients have budgets and can't just throw money at everything. I sold one in the "select" a few years back, of the 2 others I had that didnt make the select 1 sold for more than the select ave in KY and the other sold for more than the open average (the one that made it to the select was the worst rated of the 3 by my partners and our US agent, pre-inspection (we sold with a Can consignor)). If we sent them to slaughter in the open up there they probably would have brought 1 or 2k each. I won't go back to buy or sell there and most trainers I know don't want to go because they don't know how the hell to put a price on anything (I would if they all sold at once). The same people seem to buy from the same consignors all the time, trainwrecks bring good money while decent looking horses are given away. Most buyers want to make their own conclusions on what they want in pedigree and conformation. Not have horses thrown out based on what 1 person from Canada says should and shouldn't qualify for a select sale.

The market up there is impossible to figure out so most people don't go. Maybe if they let Fasig Tipton run the whole sale outside buyers would have confidence in what is going on. They run almost every other regional sale in NA and do a great job. Maybe they could come up with a few good ideas that your cant CTHS come up with.

Finally I still don't know how you think 2 sales dates 1 week apart is better for people selling. I seriously doubt people would not come up because there are too many in the sale. FYI when you go to a sale you make a long list of what you like based on ped, then narrow it down. Having more in a sale only increases your opportunity to find something you like. Just because there are more doesn't mean you have to look at more. And maybe...just maybe Ryan Mahan and I might have opposing views on what conformation flaws I can deal with in horses that I would like to buy and train.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:24 am 
Offline
Allowance Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:48 am
Posts: 464
Location: Ontario. Canada
TF-I'd vote for you for the CTHS board. The old boys network needs a good shaking up! We haven't posted half the problems we had leading up to and including this sale. :(


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:54 pm 
Offline
Allowance Winner

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 420
Location: Ontario
The CTHS Board is not comprised of "an old boys network" you may want to familiarize yourself Maureen with the people on it. In fact its not comprised of Old Boys at all.. and FYI elections are currently in the process.

Now Woodbine, thats a whole other "old boys" topic..

_________________
Horse Radish


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:02 pm 
Offline
Allowance Winner

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 420
Location: Ontario
"
Quote:
What I don't understand, the sales are so bad and most people know this, what possible reasons are behind bringing the new Stallions up here???"


The answer to this is very simple, there is quite a large market in Ontario for better bred Stallions, in the past we have been so limited in what we have to breed too here. I am very grateful that Adena has brought some well Bred Stallions for Ontarion's like myself to breed too. Better bred Stallion's ='s better bred horses (we hope), which hopefully trickles down to better our sales. Racing could not be better at Woodbine, with the influx of good American horses it forces breeder's in Ontario to breed better, (again we hope). Spendthrift isn't stupid, they brought Court Vision & Victor's Cry specifically to Ontario as they know there is a market.

I am not sure that people realize when they speak of the issues at the CTHS that Woodbine Entertainment has a lot to do with the decisions made within our sale. The CTHS has some serious restrictions to work within, the date(s) for our sale are determined by the timing of Keeneland September Sale, Fasig October Sale etc. Ideally (in my opinion) all the horses should be put through the sale in back to back days, no select, no open just put them through based on the letter of the first Dam's name, from entries recieved. The problem with this is the CTHS is very restricted in #'s, I would have to look back at my notes but I believe 250 is the absolute max. The Winter Mixed Sale in my opinion should be axed, gone, bye, bye.

For those who brought up the Sales Advisory Committee, I attended every meeting. In the beginning there were I believe 20 of us, at the last meeting I believe 9 or 10. We did put forth our feelings & changes we felt should be implimented, things were put to a vote & it was majority rules. In the end its the Board of Directors who ultimately passes the changes that were suggested & voted on.

I had a much better post written but the cat unplugged the laptop & I lost it :shock:[/quote]

_________________
Horse Radish


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group