So far, ouch.
There is a Malabar Gold colt (hip #34) in the ring now, who just hammered down at $18k...
...but before him, at least four horses with no bid at all and a couple more than sounded like RNAs.
FT Yearling sale
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
- Posts: 1811
- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:43 pm
I saw a commercial on TVG for Fasig-Tipton's upcoming mixed sale... the clip showed hardly anyone in the audience...
This is a little off-subject, but they were advertising a lot of mares for the mixed sale, like "Dam of Lost In The Fog" and other dams of big name horses... is this typical...? Seemed like a lot of mares that would bring sales interest...
What's the reasoning, as opposed to keeping them & rebreeding them...? Is everyone trying to cash in while the mares' offspring are in the limelight...? Make the money on the mare as opposed to waiting for another sale foal (and perhaps taking a hit, as we're seeing here)...? Or are the mares older...?
Just curious...
Too bad this sale is sounding so bleak already...
This is a little off-subject, but they were advertising a lot of mares for the mixed sale, like "Dam of Lost In The Fog" and other dams of big name horses... is this typical...? Seemed like a lot of mares that would bring sales interest...
What's the reasoning, as opposed to keeping them & rebreeding them...? Is everyone trying to cash in while the mares' offspring are in the limelight...? Make the money on the mare as opposed to waiting for another sale foal (and perhaps taking a hit, as we're seeing here)...? Or are the mares older...?
Just curious...
Too bad this sale is sounding so bleak already...
The sales pavillion was mostly empty, certainly no more than fifty people sitting in there at a time. The bidding was pretty lackluster. Even the few yearlings that brought some money didn't generate any excitement.
Hip #208 (Smart Strike x Classy Charlotte by A.P.Indy) went for 15K and looked like a steal. (Though they did annouce that both her knees had been screw and wired in July and the screws still needed to be removed from one, so I'm sure that had an effect.)
It was definitely a good day to be a buyer.
Hip #208 (Smart Strike x Classy Charlotte by A.P.Indy) went for 15K and looked like a steal. (Though they did annouce that both her knees had been screw and wired in July and the screws still needed to be removed from one, so I'm sure that had an effect.)
It was definitely a good day to be a buyer.
I think a lot of breeders, especially small commercial breeders, will sell the dam of the big horse because they really can not afford to keep them when the mare's value skyrockets. Stuff happens, and a lot of it is bad. The mare can founder, have foaling complications, colic surgery, or just plain become sub-fertile. The insurance on a $1,000,000 + mare is a very big annual expense, and unless she has a good foal, the breeder is out. How often does a small breeder have the chance to make the big score?
I see in the results that hip #312 (In Delight) did sell to a pretty successful trainer here in Indiana (although not for much money...) so I'll look for him here when he starts racing. But, did anyone happen to see him personally at the sale? Any comments about conformation, overall "look," athleticism, etc?
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"Don't be a boorish buffoon" -Hokies Respect 'Jerk Alert'
"Don't be a boorish buffoon" -Hokies Respect 'Jerk Alert'
As Madelyn stated in the other thread... this sale wasn't good... in fact, it was about as bad as it could get. If you take out all the "hidden" buybacks (those listed as sold, but actually not changing hands), and take out all the pre-arranged deals, and then take out the one big horse... the numbers are staggeringly bad.
The press is already in full "Good Sale" mode. Forget the facts, let's report the fiction.
However, a large part of the problem lies in a couple areas... first, there were too darn many horses. Actually, the problem was there were too darn many really bad horses. The results pretty much reinforce the perception that this is a "Dump it" sale for many. Heck, I owned a part of one of the bad horses... lovely body, clean x-rays, and a great temperment, but crooked; we didn't quite cover our expenses to sell her... certainly didn't cover the upkeep, vets, and prep... but she needed to be moved along.
Second, because of all the bad horses, and the perception, the actual buyers with money are and will be limited. They simply won't waste their time. Buzz Chace had an absolute field day(s), partially because of this. I don't think there were many horses he wanted that he didn't get...
Small breeders with average bloodstock find themselves in a very, very tough place. You are probably going to be relegated to one of the last days of Keeneland September, which can be brutal... or you can try to make a go in the F-T October sale, which will most certainly prove disappointing. I think, eventually, the regional markets, especially those with slots, will provide some relief, but currently there is a void.
I guess the answer is to do what a great many in Kentucky are already doing... have surgery performed as a weanling... hot-house them... overfeed them... and give them steroids... don't worry that they will probably break down physically or mentally before June as a 2 yr. old. You might be able to get them into the F-T July catalog. Don't worry about disclosure... no one is checking... no one is asking... don't worry about blood testing, the vets have stopped the full disclosure on surgeries, they certainly won't allow for blood testing. (Okay... I guess it just became obvious where my pet peeves lie).
The top-end guys will always be okay... partially because they have a more marketable product, partly because they can afford to keep the product, and partly because that end of the market tends to take care of each other (yes, at times, we are closely approaching some of the antics of the '80s). The very bottom either should only be breeding to race or not be breeding at all... they almost assuredly will never be able to cover their expenses. Regional sales might eventually help, this group, but even then I doubt it.
I don't have much sympathy for either the top or the bottom... my sympathy is with the middle of the road breeder, the breeders who provide the greatest amount of useful horses... the breeders who support and "make" stallions (where would Cherokee Run, Distorted Humor, Elusive Quality, Stormy Atlantic, and even Storm Cat be if it weren't for the support given them by the middle market early in their careers?)... the breeders who have a business model that should work, but keep running into difficulties usually caused by a certain bias factor (and sometimes downright discrimination) within the industry.
The press is already in full "Good Sale" mode. Forget the facts, let's report the fiction.
However, a large part of the problem lies in a couple areas... first, there were too darn many horses. Actually, the problem was there were too darn many really bad horses. The results pretty much reinforce the perception that this is a "Dump it" sale for many. Heck, I owned a part of one of the bad horses... lovely body, clean x-rays, and a great temperment, but crooked; we didn't quite cover our expenses to sell her... certainly didn't cover the upkeep, vets, and prep... but she needed to be moved along.
Second, because of all the bad horses, and the perception, the actual buyers with money are and will be limited. They simply won't waste their time. Buzz Chace had an absolute field day(s), partially because of this. I don't think there were many horses he wanted that he didn't get...
Small breeders with average bloodstock find themselves in a very, very tough place. You are probably going to be relegated to one of the last days of Keeneland September, which can be brutal... or you can try to make a go in the F-T October sale, which will most certainly prove disappointing. I think, eventually, the regional markets, especially those with slots, will provide some relief, but currently there is a void.
I guess the answer is to do what a great many in Kentucky are already doing... have surgery performed as a weanling... hot-house them... overfeed them... and give them steroids... don't worry that they will probably break down physically or mentally before June as a 2 yr. old. You might be able to get them into the F-T July catalog. Don't worry about disclosure... no one is checking... no one is asking... don't worry about blood testing, the vets have stopped the full disclosure on surgeries, they certainly won't allow for blood testing. (Okay... I guess it just became obvious where my pet peeves lie).
The top-end guys will always be okay... partially because they have a more marketable product, partly because they can afford to keep the product, and partly because that end of the market tends to take care of each other (yes, at times, we are closely approaching some of the antics of the '80s). The very bottom either should only be breeding to race or not be breeding at all... they almost assuredly will never be able to cover their expenses. Regional sales might eventually help, this group, but even then I doubt it.
I don't have much sympathy for either the top or the bottom... my sympathy is with the middle of the road breeder, the breeders who provide the greatest amount of useful horses... the breeders who support and "make" stallions (where would Cherokee Run, Distorted Humor, Elusive Quality, Stormy Atlantic, and even Storm Cat be if it weren't for the support given them by the middle market early in their careers?)... the breeders who have a business model that should work, but keep running into difficulties usually caused by a certain bias factor (and sometimes downright discrimination) within the industry.
KAL wrote:I guess the answer is to do what a great many in Kentucky are already doing... have surgery performed as a weanling... hot-house them... overfeed them... and give them steroids... don't worry that they will probably break down physically or mentally before June as a 2 yr. old...Don't worry about disclosure... no one is checking... no one is asking... don't worry about blood testing, the vets have stopped the full disclosure on surgeries, they certainly won't allow for blood testing.
Sad to say--and it has taken me a while to really accept this fact, perhaps I was too naive in the beginning--the reason the above things lead to success is because when you do all that crap you are giving the buyer what he or she wants. Or maybe, to be more correct, you're giving the buyer's agent what he wants.
Heaven forbid we should actually be producing racehorses.
LSB, you hit it on the head~
I too was naive... oh well... I was "helped" along my path (2 partners, one a supposed agent and horseman). Gotta' love those agents! Hey, anyone see that C. Seaman again had thoroughbred interests auctioned on a courthouse steps... this time it was shares in Ghazi. Is this even the same guy as the one who is constantly running ads in the trade pubs?
For my part, I know I am right... but being "right" is forcing us toward bankruptcy... I'll try to stay the course as long as possible.
We bought mares from breed-to-race operations (knowing there had been no surgeries). I knew what I was seeing was what I was getting... now, with good stallion selection and a slight change in boarding facilities, we have a crop of 7 very correct weanlings. No surgeries...
We won't do surgeries again (did 1 time, see below) unless it is completely in the best interest of the horse. We also don't use any steroids and our horses are out 24/7 (except when we are trying to protect coats from sun bleach and cold during sales prep... even then we keep them out as long as possible). Bring out the full disclosure banner, I'll be happy to wave it. Bring out the pre-sale blood testing petition, I'd even wear a needle and syringe costume in an effort to get people to sign it.
Interestingly, while we only have 7 horses we bred that are racing age, the four worst bred (came with the mare) have run. Two have won, a third has hit the board 4 times, and the fourth, a 2 yr. old, has hit the board twice. The other 3 are unraced 2 yr. olds (well, one is in Poland... so I don't know). Of the unraced 2 yr. olds... one worked a bullet last week at Churchill. So... of the 7: 4 have raced successfully, albeit at low levels... one is doing well... one is in Poland... which leaves only one unaccounted for (but I hear she is on a private farm in Florida... and is in training). We haven't been getting it done in the sales ring, but I'll match our percentages with about anyone else's.
Truthfully, those 7 are not even in the same ballpark as all but 2 of our current yearlings, and our weanlings are our strongest crop yet.
The 2 yr. who worked a bullet... was the only horse we had surgery perfomed on. Of course, a big part of the reason we had the surgery was in hopes it would help him stay sound. Apparently it worked. It certainly didn't help us in the sales ring... we actually, got less for him than we were offered pre-surgery... so much for disclosure.
As for our crooked filly in this F-T sale... she had problems from the start... and we culled the mare last year. Interestingly, the mare looked correct and was an Irish-bred, so I assumed she had not had any "corrective work". However, after seeing her two foals, I am not so sure... of course, it could have just been happenstance also. I do wish her new and future owners nothing but the absolute best and the best looking most correct foals. She really is a nice mare.
I too was naive... oh well... I was "helped" along my path (2 partners, one a supposed agent and horseman). Gotta' love those agents! Hey, anyone see that C. Seaman again had thoroughbred interests auctioned on a courthouse steps... this time it was shares in Ghazi. Is this even the same guy as the one who is constantly running ads in the trade pubs?
For my part, I know I am right... but being "right" is forcing us toward bankruptcy... I'll try to stay the course as long as possible.
We bought mares from breed-to-race operations (knowing there had been no surgeries). I knew what I was seeing was what I was getting... now, with good stallion selection and a slight change in boarding facilities, we have a crop of 7 very correct weanlings. No surgeries...
We won't do surgeries again (did 1 time, see below) unless it is completely in the best interest of the horse. We also don't use any steroids and our horses are out 24/7 (except when we are trying to protect coats from sun bleach and cold during sales prep... even then we keep them out as long as possible). Bring out the full disclosure banner, I'll be happy to wave it. Bring out the pre-sale blood testing petition, I'd even wear a needle and syringe costume in an effort to get people to sign it.
Interestingly, while we only have 7 horses we bred that are racing age, the four worst bred (came with the mare) have run. Two have won, a third has hit the board 4 times, and the fourth, a 2 yr. old, has hit the board twice. The other 3 are unraced 2 yr. olds (well, one is in Poland... so I don't know). Of the unraced 2 yr. olds... one worked a bullet last week at Churchill. So... of the 7: 4 have raced successfully, albeit at low levels... one is doing well... one is in Poland... which leaves only one unaccounted for (but I hear she is on a private farm in Florida... and is in training). We haven't been getting it done in the sales ring, but I'll match our percentages with about anyone else's.
Truthfully, those 7 are not even in the same ballpark as all but 2 of our current yearlings, and our weanlings are our strongest crop yet.
The 2 yr. who worked a bullet... was the only horse we had surgery perfomed on. Of course, a big part of the reason we had the surgery was in hopes it would help him stay sound. Apparently it worked. It certainly didn't help us in the sales ring... we actually, got less for him than we were offered pre-surgery... so much for disclosure.
As for our crooked filly in this F-T sale... she had problems from the start... and we culled the mare last year. Interestingly, the mare looked correct and was an Irish-bred, so I assumed she had not had any "corrective work". However, after seeing her two foals, I am not so sure... of course, it could have just been happenstance also. I do wish her new and future owners nothing but the absolute best and the best looking most correct foals. She really is a nice mare.