Well Done To Goffs

[teb]

Goffs in Ireland have decided not to allow barren mares over 18 to be sold and pregnant mares over 20 to be sold. Just about sick of seeing people put 24year old pregnant mares through the sales ring. Nice to see someone step up to the plate.
teb
Also, any of you guys on the board that I was supposed to meet at Goffs, I won't be there as one of my mares looks set to give birth early and I have to be here. Only the hubby will be at the sales!

[LSB]

What nice news. Kudos to Goffs from me as well. I wish Keeneland and Fasig-Tipton would take the same steps.

[BJ]

What nice news. Kudos to Goffs from me as well. I wish Keeneland and Fasig-Tipton would take the same steps.

What will that accomplish? Just means they'll send them to the killpen-type auctions. Obviously, they are being sold to unload them for whatever reason the sellers no longer want to take financial responsibility for them.

In an ideal world, they'd all find a decent retirement. But in the real world, most don't care as long as they don't stink up the better auctions. How sad. .

[Gerry]

I have to agree with BJ on this one. I have bought several mares of the type that Goff's is now banning. They are nice mares that deserved better than they were getting in their former homes, being thrown away just because they were older or not producing. I understand that this is a business but where will these mares end up when the farms cull them?

[teb]

I hardly think someone will put a mare in foal and then sell it to the killers, but whatever.
I guess the way I'm looking at it is, maybe it will make people more responsible. I believe a mare at that age deserves to be in her home until she dies. Not uprooting her life at a sale. Most of these mares I have seen over here don't sell anyway.
Personally, if I have a mare that's 20, she'll be with me until she goes. I wouldn't send her down the road to make room for another.
I make my living from horses which is a tough thing to do, all horses here have to have a job, I don't have the space or money for loads and loads of horses to roam free. The mares have their jobs. After years of service, they will have a home for life, no questions asked. I have an ex-chaser who's life was saved by me twice. He'll never leave, but he also does many jobs around the place too. I have 2 maiden mares foaling this year. They have one job, to be good mothers and take care of their foals. In exchange they have every need taken care of to the last. My husband is always getting after me for spending any money I make on making my horses lives better, but this is me. But the reality is, I have to make a living. Cruel, I'm sure you think so, but if you are not doing it as a business, it's easy to critizise.
So back to the original, I think it's good, because maybe people will think a bit and give the mare the retirement she deserves.
teb

[BJ]

I hardly think someone will put a mare in foal and then sell it to the killers, but whatever.

I didn't mean they would intentionally put them in the sale hoping killer buyers would take them. I mean they would be relegated to those lowly auctions where the killers frequent, because of this new rule. People are not that street smart. That is how those places (killpens) have flourished and survived for all this time.

[I guess the way I'm looking at it is, maybe it will make people more responsible.

Wish that were even close to being possible. Reality is, IF people were more responsible, they wouldn't be putting their 20 y/o+ in-foal mares into a sale that typically doesn't sell this kind of stock well. These are probably buyers that got INTO the business by being naive, who bought the older mare and are trying to unload it or profit from it, as someone conned them into believing they could do.

After the naive ones, there are the ones who know but don't care. Either way...it has a high percentage of ending up badly.

I believe a mare at that age deserves to be in her home until she dies. Not uprooting her life at a sale. Most of these mares I have seen over here don't sell anyway. Personally, if I have a mare that's 20, she'll be with me until she goes. I wouldn't send her down the road to make room for another.

Very happy to know that . Thank you for setting that excellent and very decent example

I make my living from horses which is a tough thing to do, all horses here have to have a job, I don't have the space or money for loads and loads of horses to roam free. The mares have their jobs. After years of service, they will have a home for life, no questions asked. I have an ex-chaser who's life was saved by me twice. He'll never leave, but he also does many jobs around the place too. I have 2 maiden mares foaling this year. They have one job, to be good mothers and take care of their foals. In exchange they have every need taken care of to the last. My husband is always getting after me for spending any money I make on making my horses lives better, but this is me. But the reality is, I have to make a living.

Kudos for everything you said there. Have not a problem with any of it...except maybe the stingy hubby :wink:

Cruel, I'm sure you think so, but if you are not doing it as a business, it's easy to critizise.

1. I'm NOT criticizing. I AM questioning the purpose and the inevitable result FOR the horse. If I DO have a criticism, it is with the horse always being the one to get the short end of the deal, just so long as the humans can benefit.

I have ZERO problem with people making money (even tons of money) off the horse, AS LONG AS the horse doesn't have to be neglected, abused or subject to ending its life in a slaughterhouse, so some human can make that last few hundred bucks off an animal that was deliberately created to serve the human, while the horse has zero choice in any matter concerning its own life, UNLESS a human provides it with a choice. And, NO, I do not define horse racing as abuse...unless in the barn of certain trainers or owned by certain owners. But that is totally separate from the act of horse racing itself.

2. I am most certainly in this as a business. In fact, it is supposed to be a retirement career. My concerns or comments are NOT directed at anyone who does things in the manner in which you state you do. My concerns and comments are directed at those who don't come close to that, nor do they care to give it a moments thought.

So back to the original, I think it's good, because maybe people will think a bit and give the mare the retirement she deserves.
teb

Disallowing a horse from entering a particular sale will NOT cause anyone to think about how that horse will end up, for the simple reason that IF they were that capable of reasonable thought, they wouldn't be breeding a 20+ mare and then putting it in a sale.

If you want to help provide a better future for these high-risk mares, (and it is a noble goal) you MUST get involved in educating people and helping to provide alternative retirements/placement for horses like this that these people apparently cannot afford to keep, and aren't knowledgable enough to know they have NO commercial value, let alone to be breeding another horse into existence.

[Sysonby]

I see announcements like this as feel good gestures (ie $1000 upset prices, age limits etc). It costs the sales company nothing, gets them good press and in the end really doesn't mean anything. It also keeps them from getting a reputation as a "killers" sale --which Keeneland, Barretts, Goffs, Fasig Tipton do not want. So the killers buy the RNAs privately or the old mares go to the weekly livestock sales. I'd be really surprised--but delighted--if these gestures did any good at all in a meaningful way.

[Sheikh]

Also, any of you guys on the board that I was supposed to meet at Goffs, I won't be there as one of my mares looks set to give birth early and I have to be here. Only the hubby will be at the sales!

Hi Teb, did the foal arrive yet ? We sold our mare at Goffs, she has a good page but she had an op on her knee and it looked bad, so was delighted with the price. Did you buy anything ?

[BJ]

I see announcements like this as feel good gestures (ie $1000 upset prices, age limits etc). It costs the sales company nothing, gets them good press and in the end really doesn't mean anything. It also keeps them from getting a reputation as a "killers" sale --which Keeneland, Barretts, Goffs, Fasig Tipton do not want. So the killers buy the RNAs privately or the old mares go to the weekly livestock sales. I'd be really surprised--but delighted--if these gestures did any good at all in a meaningful way.

Exactly! If anything it hurts the "at risk" mare population.

[teb]

Sheikh,
No didn't buy anything. We have quite a few client horses this year so we have decided not to get ourselves anything. My mare, Stella, hasn't foaled yet. She's behind me on the camera with her butt pressed against the wall so she's not too far off. What number was your mare? The stud farm I live on, bought a mare, number 1085. Lovely mare, but she's planning on breeding NH with her and not quite sure it will work, but not my decision.
BJ,
Husband isn't really stingy, he just would rather see me buy myself something nice instead of spending all my money on my horses!
I guess everyone has made valid points on this topic. There are always diffrent ways to look at everything. I was just hoping it would make people treat mares better in there later years, but probably not as that isn't making them money. It is probably the reason I will never get rich doing this-I can't sell mares that are 25 and pregnant after serving me so well.
Terri

[LSB]

While some may think of this as only a media-appeasing feel good gesture, I see it as Goffs way of saying, "We feel this behavior is wrong and we won't support it."

And for that, I applaud them.

[madelyn]

LSB said it well. Remember, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Goffs doesn't approve of selling mares who have reached that age, so they have chosen to display that disapproval by simply not accepting those mares. That decision does NOT make Goffs guilty in any way regarding the fate of those older mares no longer sold through that house.. THAT responsibility will ALWAYS and MOST SQUARELY lay upon the uncaring owner that would dump them there.

[ragsdaj]

just curious if anyone knows why the ages selected were selected.

As a new thoroughbred breeder I can find no guidelines set forth by any agency that would tell me this is a good thing or a bad thing. It will be a while before I have an 18 year old mare, but right now the decision seems to be entirely up to me with the advice of my vet if I breed or not.

I would be interested in reading some guidelines on any breed by any association. Know of any?

thanks