Tapeworms

[Tiz]

Do I understand that you haven't tried Pepto Bismol or Kaopectate to date?

[Rubytuesday]

I have tried the pepto bismal but not the kaopectate. Pepto is stronger I believe whereas the kaopectate would just act in slowing things down which the jello has not done.
Kaopectate and charcoal together???????? maybe????

[zinn21]

Whatever happened to this horse? Is she still having the runs? What about the tapeworms?

[Rubytuesday]

Yep she still has the runs.

I am getting a new vet out today and he has been in touch with the Vet university in our area. He is going to run a few tests and take it from there.
As of now the filly is gaining back weight, getting more life to her and eating well.

Have tried to treat her for ulcers with a herbal horse ulcer mix but it did not work. It may not even be ulcers but I think with everything that has happened to her in her last year she does have them. I guess the next step is Ulcer Guard which I will discuss with my vet. I understand there is a new blood test out now that will tell if there are ulcers or not and where they are in the horse.
I will keep everyone posted.

Thanks

[Mood Swings]

By your last post I understand that medically you have not treated her for ulcers? If that is the case why not just start her on omeprazole? Is expense a factor? The other suggestion I will make is tubing your filly with manure! A "poop cocktail" is difficult to give as what horse truly wants to swallow that shit?

Seriously this works!! We have had some issues with a few fillies this year with diarrhea. The metronidazole worked, however only temporarily as the diarrhea always came back. Sometimes plain old time will cure a horses digestive tract. To speed up the process you need to feed the good bacteria in her gut. Go to a farm that has no history of health issues and get manure from a HEALTHY horse. Your vet will add warm water and mix everything up then take the manure water from the top and administer it via nasogastric tube (careful you don't want any *chunks* to clog it up ). Two of the fillies recieved this treatment twice in a matter of four days, by the end of the week BOTH fillies had NORMAL formed manure Hallaluea! This was an ongoing problem for many months and they are now finally pooping solid manure. I would definately give this a shot. This is not so common a practice with horses as it is with cows but I will be sure to use this method more often Good luck!

[skeenan]

Wow... hope you find out what is causing this soon...

Don't know if these will help, but thought to pass them along, FWIW...

http://www.zoologix.com/horse/Datasheets/EquineDiarrheaPanel.htm

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/1999/276.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=JtIIfWjNjIkC&pg=PA444&lpg=PA444&dq=equine+chronic+diarrhea&source=web&ots=Dr3NLxq3CY&sig=xq18q9D1nUrB0hNY48dwrot5xEI#PPR1,M1

[zinn21]

Almost a month since last update. Is she better?

[Rubytuesday]

I wish she could get better on people's thoughtfulness, thanks for thinking of her.

To date I have been limiting her water to less than the 50litres/day that she thought she needed. She is getting approx 20l/day which is good for her size.
Her stool has become more solid and she is gaining weight but she is still very nuts for water. She craves it and will come running if she sees me near the trough.

Three days ago she had small red worms in her feces approx 1/4'' long and it is not possible that they are outside worms that crawled into her pile. So last thought is she has encysted strongyles that have not show up in the three fecals that have been done and were not killed off by the last deworming of Quest Plus at the end of Dec.

I am going to get the Panacur treatment and worm for the 5 days and hope that this is the main issue causing the runs but I also believe that she has what is called "phsycotic polydispsia) sp.

So life continues with "shit head" as she has affectionately become know as. She has an attitude, has more life than I have seen and she is surviving our Canadian winter which is a fight all on it's own.

[ratherrapid]

i hope for the horses sake that this is a very small horse to be getting less than 4 gallons of water per day.

[zinn21]

Worms? I know you treated her a time or two previously. Have you tried a probiotic to promote proper gut flora? She will never firm up if she has no microflora needed to breakdown food and ensure a normal digestive system. Many things can strip the gut of necessary flora including worming. I would add a probiotic to her system after treating her for worms etc.

Below is an excerpt on Equine Cushings and it's symptoms. I noticed excessive drinking as a symtom but don't know if anything else applies.

"Equine Cushings disease is caused by a tumor in the pituitary gland, which is responsible for the production and regulation of hormones. Symptoms include a long, shaggy coat that does not shed, excessive drinking and urination, laminitis, a tendency for recurring infections in the hoof (foot abscesses), and a loss of muscle mass, especially along the topline and rump."

[ratherrapid]

this is probably very simple since you have now found worms that undoubtedly are causing the problem. the mystery is why you would restrict water. any horse that is having runs is going to drink more water since it goes through them instead of absorbing. drinking water is not causing this problem, and i'd suggesting getting some vet advice before putting any poor animal through restricting water, unless you also try that on yourself first.

[Rubytuesday]

she is approx 307kg in weight. She is getting 6% of her body weight in water which is what I have read to be right. Not sure what everyone else thinks, maybe this is too low of an amount but the fact that she is gaining weight and eating everything that is put in front of her and she is not dehydrated at all tells me that she is getting the required amount. As she is only a coming two year old she would not require what a full grown horse drinks/day.

At first I thought that she had the diarreha because she was sick with something or there was something wrong with her whole digestive system.

Worms were not present in the fecal tests that were done. Then I calculated her water intake to be 50l/day (we are in the dead of winter here so it is not hot) So before the last blood test was taken I started to limit her water, the test came back normal and she was not dehydrated,

the test before she was dehydrated.

The more water she drinks the more liquid her stool becomes, the shorter amount of time that her food stays in her stomach, the less nutrition she gets from it.
Now with less water intake she is able to absorb more nutrients, therefore gain weight and not starve.

The grain she would get in the morning would pass through her by 3:00pm the same day (yep I studied the mess)

I know, with the runs an animal needs more water, but if an animal has the runs then they have the runs 24/7 not just after they drink a huge pile of water and before that water they had solid feces.

With less water, her urine has become normal in quantity and quality. Her kidneys have waste to process now, before it was just pouring out her digestive tract along with her food.

Now with the new worms present and dying off I will worm her with the Panacur and hope that they disappear.

I don't expect this to make much sense to people and I know that it is a big "taboo" to limit an animal's water intake and I expect to get strange looks and rude comments from the world and have everyone tell me to get in touch with a vet but after all the money spent on this girl and all the tests that were done, some 2X and every time these tests came back normal or near normal there really isn't much more a vet can do for her.

Polydipsia is an actual ailment for an animal, not one I made up. And yes there is proof of polydipsia in horses that have cushings ( I know a horse with this problem)
Humans get polydipsia sometimes when they are Diabetic.

Does anyone know the % of water a horse needs a day. A yearling that is not doing anything but growing and standing around.

Everywhere I have looked has said 4-6% body weight.

Please let me know if this should be different.

[madelyn]

It actually sounds like it could be an electrolyte imbalance. You could try feeding her Pedialyte instead of plain water, at least once a day.

Also, try to worm on an empty stomach, it is much more effective, in my opinion. Then an hour after worming, give her lots of hay to help her pass the worms.. just suggestions.

Good luck.

[Rubytuesday]

thank you for the suggestion of pedialyte. I did try the normal horse electolyte stuff but she drank more water than normal. I guess it was more like a salt than anything.

Would the electrolyte imbalance not show up in her bloodwork somehow?

[madelyn]

Some electrolytes for horses are nothing but salt in a bucket. I like Apple Dex Elite.

But for young stock, I like the gallon jugs of Pedialyte from Sams or Walmart. You don't have to worry about ratio/mixing and there is more to it than just salt. (Dextrose, potassium, etc.)