Your stallion is a reflection of his master!

[EquisAmicas]

I believe and practice the fine art of communication with the stallion, I am currently handling. They are a "Reflection" of there handler. The last several years someone else handled him, they did not do a good job. I am handling him this year. He wears a muzzle I designed.I should put it on the market. I weigh 145 lbs, he weighs 1275 lbs. I am the boss and I pack a big stick with a tennis ball on the end.( use it when needed) Appropriate head gear for him and I also wear my skid lid. One handler for the mare. So far, so good! Him and I have had are moments for he is learning the pecking order. I am the ALPHA MARE. He respects me, and I, him. He is happy and very, very well taken care of. I am posting this issue because of the "Corslew" issue! I find that very upsetting for the horse. A human has made him mean and miserable, and he carried the grudge and fight on his brain 24/7. My favorite horse to handle at the race track is the stallion. You always know what they are thinking if you pay attention. They are the most affectionate of the sexes. And can truly bound with you if you know what you are doing. My heart goes out to that horse for being destroyed. I do hope that the handler EJackson recovers.

[ragsdaj1]

Since you are a good communicator with your horse, why do you beat him with a stick? I would think eventually beating him in the head with head gear on or not would make him mean. The picture you've painted doesn't sound like you feel safe around him.

JonR

[KamiBrooks]

An interesting first post.

ragsdajd1 - I didn't take it that she actually hits him in the head with the stick.

I have a stallion on the farm and a bad day is when I have to go find the lead line with the chain on the end (I only have one and keep loosing it). Even if he's gotten loose and amoung the mare, I can still get a halter on him and lead him away from the group. Yes, he's excited beyond any rational thought, but he still complied with me the two times that I've had to pull him out of the wrong pasture. We always work on space and boundary issues.

I have a gelding that was wild till age 10, then became a BLM horse. A new foal on the farm has brought about some pretty bad behaviour despite years of good treatment. He's not dangerous to people, but is a problem for himself and other horses. His actions are entirely due to a resurfaced instinct. If he doesn't get control of himself, he will not be here much longer, because he's a danger to the other horses.

I have seen horses, dogs, etc that were just plain mean toward other animals and humans. I've owned and worked with dogs that had seizures that made them every bit as dangrous as a trapped wolf. I put mine down. I advised a friend that they needed to put their dog down and they didn't do it until the dog ripped up the arm of the 80yo grandfather.

Do you have inside knowledge of Coreslew's situation?

I think people affect the life an animal lives, but animals are also born with personality traits; instincts (that's one reason that there are 'breeds' to start with); and can develop physical problems. Without personally knowing any of the people or animals involved, its hard to (and not fair to) guess why things turned out the way they did.

My stallion would probably be highly offended if I tried to put a muzzle on him or whack him with a tennisball. Doesn't mean that either of our ways are better, just that the animals require different handling. He also may turn around a become a 'killer' type one day. And if that happends, then that's the end of it, no matter how sweet he's been before. I don't tolerate animals that attack, especially when they out weight me several times over.

I respect your opinion, but what a way to introduce yourself.

[EquisAmicas]

I am sharing actuall events that are working for my horse's safety and my welfare! The tennis ball is a " Irritant" and a distraction . When tapping the stallion's flank, the message is: Thats my business down there , what are you doing? Oh, you have my attention , now,then he backs up and away from the mare and becomes better mannered (for starters)......... Its like going on a date with a guy and he gets aggressive and you didn't send any signals of any kind for that kind of unwarrrented pass. So, when grabbing his crouch and then his ear lobe , you'll get his attention. Then kick his butt out of the vehicle (even if its his) and take your self home. (Don't look back in the mirror, follow thru)................. His head gear is a leather halter with a chain shank in his mouth ( he likes to chew on the chain) The muzzle protects him from getting kicked and his leg <broken> if he bites the mare . I never hit a horse in the head, that is not right. Unfortuantely people that do hit their horses in the head probably hit people too, starting with little kids. (Those are bullys and no good)Common sense is , never take your safety for granted when handling a stallion. By nature they are aggressive. The stallion I am handling does not act offended when I am dressing him in his work attire,he knows its time to go to work. Remember he is 1275 and he is not a lap dog................. I hate to bring this up but nothing frosts my backside more than the statement " That horse is so spoiled it must be women broke"..................Don't ya just love that one. Then I hear and see nonsense of abuse and down right controlling and being mean to a stallion.................well , several times I took a deep breath said a quick prayer and stood up for many a horse and almost got my butt kicked, even had the law brought into the scenerio. I value the fact that I am very aware and concience of my stallions actions, because one day something might happen to me and I lay motionless on the ground(heart attack or seizure) and I am within the stallions reach , I would pray that he would be sniffing me and licking my clothes to see if I were ok. Because I feed him and hot water bathe him, trim his feet and graze him in 2' of grass daily and let him take a poop on the lawn (setting his terrritory) ..............I would really like to take him off the farm and go over to a local equestrain park and jog him in there huge arena under tack and slow lope him on there 2 mile oval path. He moves so fluently. But he is not my horse.
As far as the "Corslew" issue, I wish I could have been there for awhile and gotten to know him and watch his behaviour. Living with horses is a learning process every day. I am only 50 and I hope to have 50 more years of learning . If I could take a 2 week vacation, I would like to go out in the grasslands and watch the wild mustangs.
As far as introducing myself " Hello".....................I am happy to be here!

[yukidragon]

The farm has one major rule here.
No mean horses aloud,male or female.
Life is short an I dont have anytime to waste on a mean animal.
Forget the wips,sticks, ballbats etc... I have a trailer.
Teething foals are pleanty enough for me.

[EquisAmicas]

The farm has one major rule here.
No mean horses aloud,male or female.
Life is short an I dont have anytime to waste on a mean animal.
Forget the wips,sticks, ballbats etc... I have a trailer.
Teething foals are pleanty enough for me.

So when your having a bad day who ships your backside off in the trailer?When a baby (weanling nips you for attention do you call the dentist and have its teeth pulled?

[FancyHorse]

They are the most affectionate of the sexes.

HA! I have never met an affectionate stallion in my life!!! (Not saying that their arn't any) All the ones I know bite, nip, kick, buck, rear, try to push you around, run you down! They are just plain jerks! The last thing in their mind is to nuzzle your back or lick your hand. They are just stubborn and want to be the boss at all times!

Forget the wips,sticks, ballbats etc... I have a trailer

That quote made me laugh! We have a really mean gelding. He cow kicks, bites, nips, anything he can get away with. When you walk by his stall he comes running from the back, streeching his neck out as far as he can trying to strike with his teeth. He's even broken snaps on his webbing trying to get you! Sometimes I wish I can send him to a farm, but I can't. Everyday I just sigh, grab the halter and go handle him. At least he respects more when halter is on!

[TBLADY]

I do own a stallion and yes he was mishandled and is very mean....he has a nationwide reputaion...to say the least. If anyone were to walk into his stall with a stick with a tennis ball on the end he would KILL you for bringing in a horse beater! I have found these types fof horses...many you CANNOT reason with but you can out think. Out think we ahve done for the past 20 yrs and he has made it to Prelim eventing and is now living the high life breeding mares at 26 yrs old. BTW he'd STILL kill you if he thought you had a stick in your hand...ALPHA MARE OR NOT! He's bigger, faster and stronger and he by god knows it!

[EquisAmicas]

You are so fortunate to be loping at the track,( R U down in SouthCal) I miss that terribly and I hope to be somewhere warm/semiwarm, loping this winter. Stallions are my favorite horses to lope. I am getting farm sour. I miss the hustle and bustle of the track always, something to do.
Gots to be cool with those boys packing balls in there stalls. Stallions get bored couped, up in a stall all the time. If you can get there trust they will do anything for you. Treat them right, lope em like they are 10 feet tall and a kitten in your glove they will part the red sea for your rider on race day. Course w/ trainer and vet and nutrition and the three aren't working together , it gets a little western at any barn.
I never take my stick and tennis ball into my horses stall.If he becomes disrespectful of my space when we are working I will take him over to the shelf where my stick and tennis ball lay and he then comes down to earth and settles down. In all reality he is a good minded horse and a pleasure to be around. That is his home, his stall, that is his safe haven from the outside world. Where it is located on the farm , he can see everything , he likes it that way. I have several safety fences away from all the other horses in case he were to get away.
tblady, has not met the alpha mares at the farm where I am working. They make a grown man cry and a stallion run for the hills. They are very good teachers, the best, when it comes to handling a stallion. The most important thing to remember, is do not, be afraid of your horse.Does your stallion talk to you and nicker real loud at first and then when you talk back to him he starts wiggling his nose and curling his lip, and shaking his head up and down. When cross tying him , he loves the rubber mitt with the knobs on it and rolling all over his muscles.Loves to have his tail stroked, stands there by the hour and will almost fall asleep. Around 10:30 or 11pm I do a walk thru. He asks me if I would run my fingers thru hlis tail just one more time , before you go back into the house, and I say, ok! He loves garlic salt on my palm.


quote="FancyHorse"]

They are the most affectionate of the sexes.

HA! I have never met an affectionate stallion in my life!!! (Not saying that their arn't any) All the ones I know bite, nip, kick, buck, rear, try to push you around, run you down! They are just plain jerks! The last thing in their mind is to nuzzle your back or lick your hand. They are just stubborn and want to be the boss at all times!

Forget the wips,sticks, ballbats etc... I have a trailer

That quote made me laugh! We have a really mean gelding. He cow kicks, bites, nips, anything he can get away with. When you walk by his stall he comes running from the back, streeching his neck out as far as he can trying to strike with his teeth. He's even broken snaps on his webbing trying to get you! Sometimes I wish I can send him to a farm, but I can't. Everyday I just sigh, grab the halter and go handle him. At least he respects more when halter is on![/quote]

[kezeli]

[quote="FancyHorse"][quote="EquisAmicas"]They are the most affectionate of the sexes.[/quote]
HA! I have never met an affectionate stallion in my life!!! (Not saying that their arn't any) All the ones I know bite, nip, kick, buck, rear, try to push you around, run you down! They are just plain jerks! The last thing in their mind is to nuzzle your back or lick your hand. They are just stubborn and want to be the boss at all times!

I just wanted to agree with the "most affectionate part. I have had quite a few nice stallions to take care of, it has been the fillys I have had problems with. The colts have not been so picky/finiky once you get to know them. The boys they can be pretty nice guys.

[EquisAmicas]

You sure have horse beater on the brain. Get over yourself.
The men folk in my family tree have no patience when it comes to life in general , They think they are horsemen , they are not. So being a women I have the upper hand I am smarter to begin with. You can get more flies with honey then a fly swater. They don't come around much. I demand respect and I will work there asses off with projects and chores. They don't go near my horses. It's funny to watch. When they do show up and walk towards one of my horses , my horse friend, either snorts and stares at em or turns and walks away. I seem to be the only one in our family with horses that ,never seems to have any problems with them . My horses are better mannered then they are or there kids for that matter. I love my horses, I would rather sit at a table with them and dine over good conversation than hang out with most of my family.
Have you ever played baseball? There is more then one way to handle a bat. Like handling my stick w/ the tennis ball. A (tap) in the (right area)gets there undivided attention, its the sound and the thud near the nuts that gets you where you need to be. All four feet on the ground head looking right at ya ! going ok,what now!
Have you ever seen the movie Lonesome Dove? I only saw bits of it and what I remember most was the herdsman on horseback with a stick , yea a stick , with horse hair from a horses tail. I made myself such a stick and I collected hair from several of the horses. When I am dealing with a horse that is afraid and looking for a place to hide. I go out and find the freshest poop pile left by one of the mares and rub it and saturated as best I can on that hare and use that to get close and create a comfort zone. I also take the manuer and rub it on the knees of my jeans and the shoulders of my shirt sleeve's. Everything goes so smooth. I never wear perfume around my horses.
My father in law from Tennessee moved out to Idaho when he was 15 and his bride my mother in law was 13. They had there first child a year later. They raised 13 kids. They are both dust of the earth and in heaven, now. My father in law taught me about horse manuer and how it can help you with your horses, amazing. Fresh manuer on a a cotton diaper will shine a horse up better then any product on the market and doesn't leave any odor, behind. My favorite smell in the world is the smell of a horses body fresh out of pasture.......................kind of a sweet musk.................
oh, and I checked out your website , it is good, when I get some more time ,late in the evening I will go back and read thru it, hope you have babies pics. Breeding mares is my least favorite thing to do. Foaling is my second least favorite thing to do, to nerve racking for me. The last mare I foaled here was 2 yrs ago, (that is another story in itself) I was by mself and she made it look like text book! A beautiful moment in time I will chersish as long as my mind allows me to remember. I sat back on a bail of straw and never moved ,she got up and removed the rest of her sack and washed that baby off , it was beautiful. Only thing I had to do was orally adminster a product for the foal and the enima. And I gave the mare a hot bathe in the morning and a little cocktail (orally) for her pain level. She left me a real nice 2 yr th filly.Hope to run her at the track when she is 3.

quote="TBLADY"]I do own a stallion and yes he was mishandled and is very mean....he has a nationwide reputaion...to say the least. If anyone were to walk into his stall with a stick with a tennis ball on the end he would KILL you for bringing in a horse beater! I have found these types fof horses...many you CANNOT reason with but you can out think. Out think we ahve done for the past 20 yrs and he has made it to Prelim eventing and is now living the high life breeding mares at 26 yrs old. BTW he'd STILL kill you if he thought you had a stick in your hand...ALPHA MARE OR NOT! He's bigger, faster and stronger and he by god knows it![/quote]

[EquisAmicas]

They are the most affectionate of the sexes.

HA! I have never met an affectionate stallion in my life!!! (Not saying that their arn't any) All the ones I know bite, nip, kick, buck, rear, try to push you around, run you down! They are just plain jerks! The last thing in their mind is to nuzzle your back or lick your hand. They are just stubborn and want to be the boss at all times!

I just wanted to agree with the "most affectionate part. I have had quite a few nice stallions to take care of, it has been the fillys I have had problems with. The colts have not been so picky/finiky once you get to know them. The boys they can be pretty nice guys.

Yes ,yes they can. I love it when they curl there lip and squint there eye and rub your arm (carefully). I agree on the fillies. The one I raised is a real pisser when it comes to feeding time. My mare is the Alpha mare here and because of her breeding she is honky acting. When you squeeze her barrel around her girth she just wants to come undone. I haven't ridden her in 3yrs. So when I do, I will start from the ground up like a young horse, before I even think of getting on her. Her sire was affectionate on his time, he liked his privacy. He was very self assured and you would find him laying down and sleeping like a log and snoring. Very layed back and mello.He was very protective of me.....................he was a good judge of peoples characters. Loved to drink warm water after a gallop in the morning when we were at the track.

[ragsdaj1]

An interesting first post.

ragsdajd1 - I didn't take it that she actually hits him in the head with the stick.

I really didnt think she hit him in the head with a stick although admittedly she will use the stick without hesitation. I wonder if there is a psychology person on the forum. I see a transference thesis in this post.

[Ireland]

May I add my tuppence worth to this subject? I am a stallion owner and I have bred him myself. He earned the nickname Striker at the tender age of 10 months for coming at you with his frontlegs . I have trained him myself, and I ride him too. I never had the need for a stick, balls or no balls . I can read him like a book, I know before he does what his action is going to be and forestall it if it doesn't suit me. I don't call myself his master, and I don't believe in anthropromorphic BS. I spend alot of time with him and it shows, I think.

I also find that alot of stallions are aggressive because they are locked up unless a mare arrives in the yard. And I find that alot of them react aggressive because people are afraid. We read them or attempt to and they read us, believe you me .

[KamiBrooks]

"So when your having a bad day who ships your backside off in the trailer?"

FWIW, from my point of view (and not to answer for anyone else). I am the sole owner of this farm. The majority of my horses are here because they have no where else to go and have come from a background of being shuffled through some really crappy situations. When the animal comes to the farm, it is my personal goal to spare them ever returning to those types of conditions.

So, if there is one animal on the farm putting me or the others at risk, I have no problem terminating the situation. There is no board high enough and no horse cute enough for me to intentionally put myself at that kind of risk. And here is a part of my reasoning.

- ALL the animals on this farm rely on me to maintain it (financially, physically, etc, etc).
- NO animal on this farm is going to be able to continue it for the sake of the others. If something happens to me, they'd be sold off to where ever.

SO that means that the non-redemable bad actors (and I believe they exist) need to be delt with. It makes no sense at all to me to put myself at risk with a dangerous animal. I don't have to prove anything. And, I freely tell anyone who asks that I don't know squat about horses.

In your original post you wrote:

A human has made him mean and miserable, and he carried the grudge and fight on his brain 24/7.

Its very possible that different handling, gelding, or what ever may have created a different situation. But you haven't said that you knew the horse or the people, so I'm not sure what you base these comments on. Your own assumptions? But you yourself say:

I am handling him this year. He wears a muzzle .... I pack a big stick with a tennis ball on the end.( use it when needed) Appropriate head gear for him and I also wear my skid lid.

I come from an approach that includes things like clicker training, etc.. So to me your approach has the potential to create another Coreslew scenario. I hope that it doesn't and I hope that you and the stallion are always safe.

But ironically, your title is probably accurate because if I couldn't train better self control into the horse he wouldn't actually be here or he wouldn't be a stallion anymore. So I guess the stallion is a reflection of the extent that his handler is willing to go to.