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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:17 pm 
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Well, now that's a thought... Michael, which vaccine did you use? I used the Killed Vax, I never use ML on a pregnant mare... just paranoia. I wonder if that makes a difference??? I did all my vaccines on the mares 30 days before they were due, as part of their pre-foaling vax, and I've also vaccinated our foals; 2 initial doses 4 weeks apart, then yearly after that. Hearing the scary stories is enough to make you second guess yourself whenever you do it, though. I still plan to vaccinate, but if I ever have a dummy foal or other such problem, I'm sure I will have to think long and hard about reconsidering.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:15 am 
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I used to use Ft Dodge vaccines until I was soundly told off by a vet tech who said that Ft Dodge does not batch-test its vaccines for quality control... of course that may have changed in the last year or so. We do our "big" shots in the fall and boosters in the spring for most stuff, I believe horses are more susceptible during cold weather. The exception is the WNV, we do the first in Feb, the booster in March...I will look for the live vaccine, sounds like it would be more effective, like the polio ones were. Thanks for the update.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:12 pm 
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This did not occur at Creston Farm. It's important to check facts before drawing conclusions. Try it sometime.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:45 pm 
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Michael,

Wishing you the best for your baby's full recovery.

T

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:26 pm 
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yes, best wishes (get well soon) for your colt. Lucky it was caught so soon!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:13 pm 
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Michael,
Sorry to hear about your horse. And sorry to hear of your loss of Bang's dam (if I am reading correctly).
I saw a horse sell at Keeneland, believe it was last night, from Bang's family.
Good luck.
Judi


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:30 pm 
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Michael,

A couple of questions to unravel the mystery:

1. You state the Dam of Bang & Bang's half brother died two days after foaling; is the half brother the one that died of an infection soon after being gelded? If so, maybe there was an "imune deficiency" going on there with both...possibly totally unrelated to WNV vaccine.

2. The Swiss Yodeler colt born deformed; isn't a "week or so" kind of a short period of time to create or be the cause of a deformity?

Just trying to play devil's advocate here as I am leaning (gut feeling) toward these things being tragic coincidence.

BJ


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:14 pm 
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I thought of that, re: the #2 point BJ made, the deformity in a fetus wouldn't be what shows up in, really, a few short weeks. The deformity seen would have had to have some more time to develop. I think, not sure, but I think, 2-3 weeks worth of deformity would be pretty hard to detect in a feotus, you might just see the feotus as an abortant. Just something to think about?

chiggins

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:21 pm 
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I've been using the Ft. Dodge vaccine for a few years now and have done ok with it. I was concerned in the beginning, but am feeling more comfortable with the yearly boosters and after the mares have had it in their system. I have had no bad effects.

We didn't really have a bad mosquito year here either. I think you'll see East Coast WNV cases go down this year because of that. Unfortunately, this thing is probably cyclic and we're in the cycle. I do vaccinate all my stuff and have been ok.

Sorry to hear about the foal, that's a bang-up sire, one of my favorites.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:24 am 
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I did all my WNV vaccianting before the mares were bred ;ast winter and we had one dummy, one deforemed foal and one aborted foal out of four mares.

Both the farm and hospital vets assure me there were no connections between the three lost foals. .

I had the fourth mare checked last week and the foal is active but small for a 9.5 month mare. The mare has always been a hard keeper but her coat is short and shiney and she is alert and runs, junps and bucks when she's turned out. She's on free-choice oats, free choice coastal burmuda hay and her 20 acre coastal pasture was over sown with rye last fall and her droppings are green.

All four mares were maidens and all were and are in very good condition and all had herpies vaccines at 5,7 & 9 months. The three mares that lost their foals have been cultured as was the stallion and all were negative. Two vets have assured me there is or was no connection between the three lost foals but there is too much smoke here to ignore.

Any suggestions.

griff

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:53 am 
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griff wrote:
I did all my WNV vaccianting before the mares were bred ;ast winter and we had one dummy, one deforemed foal and one aborted foal out of four mares.

Both the farm and hospital vets assure me there were no connections between the three lost foals. .

I had the fourth mare checked last week and the foal is active but small for a 9.5 month mare. The mare has always been a hard keeper but her coat is short and shiney and she is alert and runs, junps and bucks when she's turned out. She's on free-choice oats, free choice coastal burmuda hay and her 20 acre coastal pasture was over sown with rye last fall and her droppings are green.

All four mares were maidens and all were and are in very good condition and all had herpies vaccines at 5,7 & 9 months. The three mares that lost their foals have been cultured as was the stallion and all were negative. Two vets have assured me there is or was no connection between the three lost foals but there is too much smoke here to ignore.

Any suggestions.
griff


Thanks for scaring the hell out of me, Griff :shock: I just asked about vaccinating for West Nile before being bred and I was told it wasn't a danger. So I did it. Didn't have a choice, my mares are at a ranch that doubles as a protected wetlands.

Geesh...wiith all the stuff on here about rectal tears, ruptured uterus(sp?), placentitis, and now deformed and aborted foals all having pre-breeding WV vaccinations...I'm thinking, WHY would I want to breed my two mares? One is a maiden and one had a premature foal last year with the first and second dam having histories of 2-3yr periods of aborted foals.

Do your mares' first or second dams have breeding problems Griff?
You can find out by looking them up on Equineline.com. If you don't already have a "portfolio acct.", it is free for the first 30 days (free trial), then it is only $2.49 per horse and you get the full breeding history, with ALL info, incl. aborteds, barrens, not bred, no report, etc. Gives complete birth dates of all foals. So you can see the patterns, if there are any to see. (Just in case you didn't already know.)


Is there any Fescue around your mares? That is also known to cause aborting in broodmares. Don't know about deformities though.

Makes me want to ask WHY...WHY...WHY would anyone WANT to do this? Are we all crazy????? :roll: I just bought the book, Blessed Are The Broodmares...do I dare read it? :?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:59 am 
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I've heard that Blessed is a rough read - lots of trajedies told. I want to read it someday but haven't gotten to it.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:05 am 
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WarHorse wrote:
I've heard that Blessed is a rough read - lots of trajedies told. I want to read it someday but haven't gotten to it.


Well...it's the tragedies that make us either bitter or immensely grateful for the good we DO have in our lives/experience. I try to focus on the latter. Save bitterness for the really evil people in the world!

Anyway...as attached as I am to my horses...what happens to them is worse than if it happens to me! :cry:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 am 
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I know the feeling, and know others with the same mindset.

Michael, any updates?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:26 am 
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WarHorse wrote:
I know the feeling, and know others with the same mindset.


Glad to know I'm not TOTALLY alone on that river with both oars out of the water :lol:


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