Would you buy feed that was 100% nutritious to your horses?

[nythoroughbredvz]

Hello,
I will be getting my first batch of custom feed manufactured soon and just wondered if people had the same questions i do about what my horses eat out of those bags every day?

I basically am looking for opinions and thoughts on "do people want a feed that is 100% usefull to their horses"?
Do they wonder what their feed is actually made of?
Will they be interested and willing to purchase such a feed?
What im possibly looking for is a trainer, broodmare owner, and someone raising babies to use this exclusively on 1-2 of their horses and give me their oppinions?
I did this basically for my own use with no intensions on selling feed. Everyone I have came in contact with so far has been shocked that you can get good protein, fat, fiber levels without fillers or a larger quantity of Soy.
So this made me wonder if there is any interest out there.
Also this is good for horses that are prone to be colicky as most of the pelleted ingriedients work with the digestive system..


Myself and a few others have been Studying the equine diet, digestive system and their needs for quite a while, have spread sheets, graphs, data and excell formated formulas for individual ingriedients. Trying to develop a feed with no fillers, additives or bulk garbage that can be found in most comercial feeds.
With the help of Licensed equine nutritionalist, feed manufacturers, vetrinarians, the FDA and research from Cornell Univirsity I have developed a feed that within every ouce of the ingriedients have value to the equine diet.
The feed when the final formula is completed will be high in Protein (not supplied by Soy based products that offer little value to achieve a raw protien %), Fiber and Fat.
Can adjust Protein, Fat, and Fiber simply with the mixing of oats (making it cost effective & versitile)
THERE ARE NO:
bi-products, straw, or bulk fillers and limited Soybean meal in the mix i have came up with thus far.
So price per pound you arent paying for 20% of fillers! 20 pounds of most comercial feeds per 100# are fillers or by products to acieve their weight!
There is little Soybean Meal: Soybean Meal is a high source of Protein, however it is considered to be a (GOOD to OK) source of Protein not a great nutritious source! there is only enough to get a boost of natural vitamins B1 & Niacin...
The feed is in the form of pellets to achieve total digestion. does not have the fine/dusty ingriedients that settles in the bags, and is combined with Oats, Corn and enough Molasses to hold the mix together and boost carbs, energy, Iron and Calcium.

HERE IS THE RUNDOWN:

TO BE PELLETIZED:
Rice Bran, iodized salt, brewers yeast, cottonseed meal, wheat bran, alfalfa, soybean meal, linseed/flax- meal or whole, limestone, trace, mineral salt, whole oats, beet pulp, liquid molasses, electrolites, lipids, vitamin E, seliniumn, dried skim milk
TO BE ADDED TO TE MIX IN ITS ENTIRE:
cracked corn, clipped or cleaned oats, beet pulp shreds, liquid molasses

VALUE AS FED
crude protein 14.65
crude fiber 9.6
fat 5.142
calcium .514
phosphorus .40
magnesium .237
potassium .237
sodium .34
chlorine .63
salt .677
sulfur .215
iron 287 PPM's
copper 23.7
manganese 95.1
zinc 128
molybdenum 1.76
selenium .591
vit a 4075
vit d 519
vit e 18.35
(some adjustment yet to be made to provide a complete and advanced diet)

Please share your thoughts and criticism?

[Gerry]

I sent you a PM as well but I am wondering about the beet pulp shreds being added in...I always soak my beet pulp so that is a concern.

[madelyn]

A good number of horses have issues with sugar so the molasses would be a concern.

[BridledObsession]

Based on my research, it is safe to feed pelleted beet pulp dry to the majority of horses. We're currently doing it with ours. (Much thanks to Madelyn and her advice on beet pulp -- it is really helping).

As for molasses, I wouldn't feed without it now:) I suppose that's a completely personal preference in much the same way some parents keep candy and desserts out of their kid's diet However, we have bought feed that had entirely too much in it and caused clumping and bouts of colic. So, we've been mixing oats with our sweet feed now. If you have the mix at a correct level, I would think it would be fine for most people.

Our feedings have become mini science experiments. It would be lovely to be able to feed one pre-mixed, pre-measured feed.

[madelyn]

Based on my research, it is safe to feed pelleted beet pulp dry to the majority of horses. We're currently doing it with ours. (Much thanks to Madelyn and her advice on beet pulp -- it is really helping).

As I recall it was a weight problem? As in not holding weight? I'm very glad it is working for you.

As for molasses, I wouldn't feed without it now:) I suppose that's a completely personal preference in much the same way some parents keep candy and desserts out of their kid's diet However, we have bought feed that had entirely too much in it and caused clumping and bouts of colic. So, we've been mixing oats with our sweet feed now. If you have the mix at a correct level, I would think it would be fine for most people.

Our feedings have become mini science experiments. It would be lovely to be able to feed one pre-mixed, pre-measured feed.

Tell me about it. I call it "horse cuisine" -- and when the weekly feeding instructions are posted inside the feed room our "old timer" can be heard cussing about having to measure this, soak that, mix this, etc. However, I wouldn't have it any other way because this way, each horse can get precisely its own particular needs met.

I had a mare choke last night just on hay. It is very scary when that happens and gave us a tense half hour or so. I could not get a vet on the phone at all, so I had to just do my best. I pulled her into an empty stall. I could NOT get a twitch on her because of the slime coming out her nose. I managed to locate the blockage and palpate and massage it past the throat. I used the plastic tube of my turkey baster, with a funnel duct-taped in place of the bulb, to glug about a quart of corn oil down her throat, and we actually heard the blockage glug its way down. A couple of minutes later her nose was all dried up, and she looked perfectly normal. But it was a really scary moment. And she is in a stall for observation at least until tomorrow. So I will continue to soak my beet pulp.

[ratherrapid]

NY great thread! Maybe you've started something here! As to the actual feed, you asked for reactions, so I'll avoid sugar coating it. Seems to me this needs more work!

[nythoroughbredvz]

Question:
Ok I am intrigued I am alittle concerned about the beet pulp shreds whole in the mix but other than that it sounds interesting and would love to give it a try.
I dont believe that you can add enough yeast to the mix to truly help with digestion since the cooking process usually kills the beneficial bacteria so I would continue to use my Fastrack Microbial with the horse that I try your grain on. But what the heck I would like to try it for 1 stallion, 1 mare and 2 weanlings....give me details

Answer:
hello,
most of the beet pulp is added to the pelletized portion, but there will be some shreds in the mix, similar to legends brand feed, that is used for race horses and high level workouts.. the brewwers yeast is there for a few reasons, it is a excellent source of vitamin B, actually has the best quality of protein, very high in Phosphorus, aids in calming a horse, repels insects, and parasites! I was shocked to learn this. as well as aspects of othere ingriedients. feed manufacturers do not take this route because of cost for the ingriedients. its still not a completed formula. the goal is to get every vitamin and mineral equal to the highest suggested daily requirement for a horse. that way if you cut the feed with oats to lower fat, protein, and fiber you still meet the minimum daily requirements for vitamins and minerals. that way you do not have to buy or use supplements.. there is more info to add and more that it will offer like biotin, etc.. but everything i'm trying to gain these thing with are a natural source instead of a additive. in all honnesty you should be able to cut this feed 1-1, or 2-1 with oats and still have a feed that is equal or greater than your comercial bagged feed. some nutrients in feed are better absorbed and have a more realistic value from a natural source instead of something that has been extracted or formulated to bring a level up. thats what im trying to balance out..


as far as the Molasses...it is high in carbs & energy, also hight in iron & calcium and it is from a natural source which is absorbed easier than an additive! it controls dust if say the pellets break etc.. it also holds the feed together.. have you ever bought feed and the corn and oats have shiffted in the bags and things are not equally distributed?

Yes this does have a bit of work left to do, im doing this for myself im sick of having a horse to heavy, one to thin, one picky, one not picky but the nutritionalist im working with is doing great with taking my data from each ingriedient and juggling them around to reach these levels. im tired of mixing feeds so my goal was to have one bin with oats added for the easy keepers, one bin with less oats for average feeders, and onother full strength per say for the ones i cant keep weight on or broodmares, foals, etc...

as far as the beet pulp most is pelletized, but there is some non-pelletized in it. beet pulp is safe within a percentage of the feed! it doesnt need to be soaked as long as there isnt large quantities of it! I have added a link to a comercial feed that is high in beet pulp as a base in the shredded form..
http://www.equussource.com/horsefeed/le ... ds_R_T.jsp

[cewright]

In our area (North Texas) the Ca:P ratio should be 2:1.

What is the Equine DE (digestible energy)? I work off a maintenance diet of 14000 mcal/day for an 1000 lb horse. The feed I buy is formulated to deliver necessary nutrition when fed at a rate of 0.5 lbs/100 lbs body weight. Feed contains 4.5% fat. Grass hay (coastal and common Bermuda) is fed daily at about 1 lb/100 lbs body weight. They also have access to pasture at least 10 hours/day. Horses in training are supplemented with crushed oats. Broodmares receive extra oats and alfalfa. Young horses receive a Calcium supplement.

Farms feeding mostly alfalfa hay need a feed with a different nutrient package than the one I use.

There are several commercial feeds, such as Strategy and Safe Choice, which purport to be all purpose feeds. Are they available in your area?

Chuck

[BridledObsession]

[I had a mare choke last night just on hay. It is very scary when that happens and gave us a tense half hour or so. I could not get a vet on the phone at all, so I had to just do my best. I pulled her into an empty stall. I could NOT get a twitch on her because of the slime coming out her nose. I managed to locate the blockage and palpate and massage it past the throat. I used the plastic tube of my turkey baster, with a funnel duct-taped in place of the bulb, to glug about a quart of corn oil down her throat, and we actually heard the blockage glug its way down. A couple of minutes later her nose was all dried up, and she looked perfectly normal. But it was a really scary moment. And she is in a stall for observation at least until tomorrow. So I will continue to soak my beet pulp.

That is really scary. You were lucky you were there and had some idea what to do. I look back on my first OTTB as a 4H-er, and knowing what I know now, am ever so thankful he was an incredibly easy keeper although I had absolutely no idea of that at the time!!

The beet pulp we ended up buying is actually small, grainy pellets. I couldn't talk my boyfriend into soaking regular beet pulp (I suppose that would have something to do with the already amazing array of supplements that differ for almost every horse in the barn and the amount of time it's already taking to feed )-- and he's the one who lives there and does the vast majority of the work, so I opted for trying to feed it dry. Apparently occurrences of choking on shredded beet pulp are extremely rare but some horses with chewing/eating issues need to be watched.

[ratherrapid]

Ny sounds as if you're developing an all purpose feed for broodmares or stallions.! I'll drop out at this point since I know little about broodmares and am personally concerned with performance feeding for horses in training. but, wanted to include: recent blood horse article by "equine nutritionist" claimed horses get 10 times daily iron requirements from forage. my understanding,B vitamins are manufactured in the hind gut. I've also wondered to what extent we want to be supplement with A vitamins since that's a potentially dangerous fat soluble vitamin that might already be in excess in forage. but, unknown to me.

[valjoe]

How about some sunflower seeds?
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... ce&dbid=57

[nythoroughbredvz]

cewright Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject:

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In our area (North Texas) the Ca:P ratio should be 2:1.

The feed I buy is formulated to deliver necessary nutrition when fed at a rate of 0.5 lbs/100 lbs body weight. Feed contains 4.5% fat.

Farms feeding mostly alfalfa hay need a feed with a different nutrient package than the one I use.

There are several commercial feeds, such as Strategy and Safe Choice, which purport to be all purpose feeds. Are they available in your area?
************
the Ca:P ratio should be 1:1 or 2:1
I'm trying to get it at 1:1 simply because timothy hay is 1:1 as to where alfalfa is 7:1 so to control this through feed isnt consistent depending on hay, pasture, and location..
the feed im having made for myself is formulated to deliver necessary nutrition when fed at a rate of 0.4 lbs/100 lbs body weight. Feed contains fat of 5.142 (so far) so this suggests that the difference between 0.4 lbs/100 & 0.5 lbs/100 is that your feed has 20% of its weight as just that "weight" fillers, and non providing ingriedients. thats why im tired of buying comercial feeds! my goal is to have something concentrated that is easily adjusted without having a feed room that looks like a bakery supply room!
i have no desire to buy feed in 50# bags when 10# is oat straw,wheat straw, by products or soybean. hell i dont eat soy burgers why should my horses!

[nythoroughbredvz]

ratherrapid
Allowance Winner


Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 378
Location: kansas city, missouri
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject:
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Ny sounds as if you're developing an all purpose feed for broodmares or stallions.! I'll drop out at this point since I know little about broodmares and am personally concerned with performance feeding for horses in training. but, wanted to include: recent blood horse article by "equine nutritionist" claimed horses get 10 times daily iron requirements from forage. my understanding,B vitamins are manufactured in the hind gut. I've also wondered to what extent we want to be supplement with A vitamins since that's a potentially dangerous fat soluble vitamin that might already be in excess in forage. but, unknown to me.
***********
this is being made to be suited for my horses, broodmares, foals, and i have a few riding horses. but if you look a few months back through thoroughbred times there was a article abour Kiran Mclaighlin's feeding regument and for his race horses it consisted of hulless oats and a comercial mixture that consisted of (more or less) Rice Bran, brewersyeast, linseed/flax-seed.
so with little additional rice bran, and clipped or hulles oats added to this mix i think it will provide a race horse with more than enough!
as far as vitamin A the only ingriedient that provides a higher level of that is the Cracked Corn..
if you noticed also there is no Barley in this feed, Barley has a decent TDN but very low in protein, HOWEVER! its inexspensive so you almost always find it in comercial feeds.
The same goes for Wheat Bran, there is some in this mix but very little.. it is high in Fat, and Phosphorus. but has been known to cause urinary problems. most comercial feeds have a higher value of Wheat Bran because it is a easily obtainable by-product..
Remember I'm not going to sell feed. I just thought this would be a good topic. and i wanted feedback, oppinions, suggestions etc..

[nythoroughbredvz]

valjoe
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject:
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How about some sunflower seeds?
**********
Glad you asked that We are looking for a source to buy them in bulk shell-less, or making them part of the pelleted ingriedients as whole!
But every time something is added, adjusted, etc. it changes everything to some extent, so it will take some more time to work it in.
We are only playing with this and time is limited but i would love to see them in there!

[Monmouth Matt]

Great post.