stuborn gelding trainers advice needed

onalimb · Postby **onalimb** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:33 am

I got a gelding giving the trainer a hard time, he is refusing everthing new being introduced to him, I believe it is because he was use to not much activety around my place or at the breaking farm where he learned his basics and now he is at a training farm with a lot going on, and with another exersize rider he does not like. he keeps trying to flip over and bite the rider, they have now put full blinkers on him with not much improvement, he has become skidish which he never was before. I know they have set programs they run horses thru to get them race ready and they expect him to do what they want but he is stuborn and the more they force the issue the more he refuses. saturday he was being worked on track and he was acting up kicking and refusesing to do what the rider wanted so he decided to go to his knees and lie down to stop rider from getting his way. He is a very nice looking gelding strong, fit, big boned and smart that I have alot invested in allready .uggg...the man who broke him to ride had some trouble with him at first but he took his time and by the time he left him he would do everthing he asked willingly. So I guess my question would be should I try another trainer not that this trainer is bad but maybe he will react better with someone else????

docjocoy · Postby **docjocoy** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:09 am

I would move him in a heartbeat. One size does not fit all. It's your money that's pouring in, you should at least get a program that you feel fits the horse. If you get him into another program and it still doesn't work, then you may need to rethink the horse.

Brogan · Postby **Brogan** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:06 am

It's drastic, but you may need to rebreak him...start him back at square one.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:41 am

Hm. You could also consider giving him a shot of reserpine (Serpasil), which is a 21 day tranquilizer. I use it on EVERYTHING I send to the track for the first time. It doesn't make them seem sleepy or drugged, just Very Very Happy. It wears off very gradually and by the time it is cleared out, they are doing everything they need to do.

onalimb · Postby **onalimb** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:54 am

Thanks....They did drug him the first couple times he was rode but he is not on drugs now. He is fine on exersizer -wash stall- and in his stall ..he just gets pissed when they try to get him to work out..they are going to work him with another horse this week hoping a friend will help I think it might...but I'm still thinking I might have to find another trainer, so there is no down time between trainers since he is fit now......All sugestions are appreciated,thanks again...

onalimb · Postby **onalimb** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:59 am

Also do you think a rider change might help him since it seems like HE DOES NOT LIKE THIS ONE...

LB · Postby LB » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:57 am

onalimb wrote:Thanks....They did drug him the first couple times he was rode but he is not on drugs now. He is fine on exersizer -wash stall- and in his stall ..he just gets pissed when they try to get him to work out..they are going to work him with another horse this week hoping a friend will help I think it might...but I'm still thinking I might have to find another trainer, so there is no down time between trainers since he is fit now......All sugestions are appreciated,thanks again...

If he is fine doing everything he's asked except when a rider is on his back, I would consider that he might be in pain somewhere and that when he's asked to do something that hurts he resists.

I'd think about having a vet and maybe a chiropractor look at him.

ratherrapid · Postby **ratherrapid** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:42 am

I'd avoid overreacting to the saturday incident and also consider it a red flag. If it is more than one incident I'd be using my eyeballs to look for causes. How do the other horses in this barn look? are there signs of horse abuse, neglect or handler stupidity. these are fairly easy to see with one walk down the shedrows. if you are inexperienced, there are people here that can provide answers as to what to look for.

also, does the same rider get along with other horses? did you watch the rider to see what you like/dislike that he/she does? there are many techniques to handle spooky skittish horses. is the rider/trainer aware?

TrueColours · Postby **TrueColours** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:52 am

Many horses need to be asked politely to do something becasue if you TELL them and ram it down their throats, they will react adversely to that sort of directive. He could be sensitive enough or smart enough that he resents how he is being told to do things...

Many trainers also know how to demand compliance but never reward it. A simple scritch on the neck, or a pat and a "Good Boy" can go a long way to changing an attitude around. Also - is he being hammered time after time after time? Is he asked to do something once - he does it - then he is asked again and again without a break? That can cause a sulky "screw you" attitude as well

He sounds like a horse that needs the affirmation and praise that he is being a Good Boy, being asked to do something in the proper manner, and rewarded when he complies. It sounds like a lot of that might not be happening - just the incessant punishment when he does something wrong

Good luck with him ...

onalimb · Postby **onalimb** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:07 pm

Yes, I think you have it right, and I asked the trainer the same thing about giving him more schooling with the attaboy stratgy and he just told me the horse just does not want to work and if a horse does not want to work he will never be any good....even if he has the ability....

pfrsue · Postby **pfrsue** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:05 pm

onalimb wrote:...he just told me the horse just does not want to work and if a horse does not want to work he will never be any good....even if he has the ability....

I'd say that's a definite sign that you need to find a new trainer. It sounds like yours has little interest in working with the horse at this point.

LB · Postby LB » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:28 pm

pfrsue wrote:
onalimb wrote:...he just told me the horse just does not want to work and if a horse does not want to work he will never be any good....even if he has the ability....

I'd say that's a definite sign that you need to find a new trainer. It sounds like yours has little interest in working with the horse at this point.

Agreed. Some trainers only want the easy horses. Unfortunately for owners, they're not all easy.

TrueColours · Postby **TrueColours** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:53 pm

Another vote for a new trainer and one that can "read" your horse and adjust the training program accordingly ...

He might well need to take 5 steps back before he can progress one step forward. So be it ... If he is a nice horse and talented you will be very glad you've done so and hopefully you do it soon, before he gets it in his head that all humans are jerks and none are worth putting any effort out for ...

onalimb · Postby **onalimb** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:27 am

I agree, he has no intrest anymore to work with him so I will have to go pick him up.. My trouble will be finding another trainer, there few and far between up here in michigan,especially ones that have there own track.. the current trainer said I should put him out to pasture with about 5 mares for about 6 monthes or get rid of him...Well I'm not giving up on him so he will come home till I can find a trainer that knows (one size does not fit all)..but what do you all think about laying him up for awhile, I'm afraid he might carryover his same behavior with a new trainer right away??? .........THANKS TO EVERONE WHO TOOK TIME TO ANSWER AND HELP ME...

TrueColours · Postby **TrueColours** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:01 am

How old is he?