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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:59 am 
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One thing I'd highly recommend (and I think LB mentioned this already) is to have a vet go over him with a fine toothed comb when you do bring him home.

Trying to bite the rider, bucking and lying down while being ridden sound more like he's reacting to something extremely painful rather than just having an ongoing temper tantrum...ESPECIALLY since from your description, he's only doing this when under saddle.

Also, it would be interesting to know what sort of bit they were using on him, and whether the saddle, girth, etc. were all in good repair and properly fitted.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:36 am 
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yes, i think we'd need a lot more info to make helpful comments. The OP sounded like one incident to which I'd avoid overreacting. this is hardly the first horse that has every lain down with a saddle on it, and there could be numerous reasons. I am unable to even tell whether the trainer is reacting to your own demands or that his concern is problems with the horse.

It would be helpful to know how long the horse had been in that barn, what they did with him, etc. I would definitely avoid turning the horse out. I am thinking, without knowing, that the whole thing is an overreaction to a few ordinary problems. Many horses have initial difficulties and become fine race horses, and many horses have later behavioral difficulties that must be overcome. there are techniques, but first you need know the causes of what went wrong.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:17 am 
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He is a three year old (his name is lifes payne) and he has only been at the trainers farm 7 weeks and they had a problem with him from day one..

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Last edited by onalimb on Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:59 am 
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Also I did ask the trainer if he thought somthing might be bothering him since he had fliped over on them quite a few times (maybe his back) and he said no he is fine and fit just does not want to work. as for other horses in there barn it is fine no abuse or neglect.. they train approx 30 horses a year for the track and he said every couple of years they will get a horses that does not like there work and he will turn them out if he really likes there pedigree or get rid of them.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:25 pm 
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put a western saddle on him and find a cowboy with a set of roller spurs

griff

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:46 am 
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yah ..hoo

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:18 am 
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onalimb wrote:
Also I did ask the trainer if he thought somthing might be bothering him since he had fliped over on them quite a few times (maybe his back) and he said no he is fine and fit just does not want to work. as for other horses in there barn it is fine no abuse or neglect.. they train approx 30 horses a year for the track and he said every couple of years they will get a horses that does not like there work and he will turn them out if he really likes there pedigree or get rid of them.


Onalimb--best of luck with this horse. this is really too bad! I am thinking nobody is going to want to get on a horse that flips, and this quite possibly might be the problem! Some young horses do flip at the slightest provocation. There's little on the race track that's more dangerous than a horse that flips. the rider is going to keep the horse with this problem in its stall instead of taking it out and working with it.

if you believe flipping is a problem, or the problem, some suggestions to handle this can be made! also, eliminate all possible causes--teeth, bits, vision, equipment, general health, general handling (e.g. did he have these problems at the breaking farm?), etc. if its a flipping problem, this horse needs to train in company, and there are several other things that can be done. the horse is 3 going on 4, and if you intend to race him and have the cash, seems to me he needs to get on with it instead of turnout.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:47 am 
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Boy, does this bring back memories. We had one that did similar things. The trainer roughed him up "making" him behave. He too was fine with everything else but out on the track. Finally, the horse jumped out from under his son who was riding him and the kid hurt his back, pretty bad. Nothing permanent thank goodness. I got him immediately and brought him home. Checked the horse over and he had sores in his mouth. Took him to a vet for dental check. The horse had FOUR abscesses in his mouth. pulled two teeth that hadn't come out yet, the horse was a 3 year old. Let his mouth heal and sent him to a different trainer. The first trainer didn't have a clue. The horse didn't give the new one any trouble. They ended up buying him, then they sold him and he raced on the bush tracks. He set a track record for 7 f in Montana and had several wins for them. He was their bread and butter horse. Get a thorough dental check up, get a different trainer and see how that goes. You are asking for a train wreck at this stage. Chiropractor is an absolute must too. Good Luck and keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:29 pm 
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Well I have to go pick up gelding from school he has not been following the rules.... Trainer said save my money and drink beer ....funny but not funny.. guess unconventional summer school is in his future...MAN...raise them up and feed them clothe them, ok not clothe them but what do you do???

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:00 am 
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sad also for those of us that have also been there, ONalimb. if this horse is without talent I'dunderstand your trainer's advice, and sense of humor. if you think the horse has running ability, might consider the following or any combo:

1. buying long line equipment--costs about $100 all told--and long lining the horse 2-3 weeks. Long lining, assuming a normal horse, produces a very calm obedient animal.
2. exercising riderless for about 30 days to see if the horse can train and run with some ability. you'd need a fenced off lot with about 35-40 yd diameter and a whip. horses love this, and it gets them ready to run.
3. you might also try an Astride riderless weighted saddle for a few weeks before putting a rider back on.
4. or, get a local rider on his back for a while and see how he does.
Best of luck with your horse!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:39 pm 
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Thanks for the replys folks I'll keep you updated.. you know I was bummed when I had to go get him but I'm looking out the window at him now and I can't help but smile, he is a smart horse and I think the trainer was right when he said my horse would just plant his front feet then buck and look at him as to say SCREW YOU....(trainers words) I have raised other horses from babies to three year olds and after a few monthes at training farms they were not the same horse anymore they become just another animal, but not this one, he looks at me as if he is saying I'm not just another animal...So wish me luck because lifes (a) payne ...Jill

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:20 pm 
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Google:

Equine ECP Matrix.

It's a product sold by Mushroom-Matrix that is suppose to help with this problem..

I have a 4 YO gelding that we just started back in training after a 9 month turn out that does not want to go to work. I'm lucky in that his trainer is young, strong and determine and just about has things under control; however, I'm going to try this stuff for 45 days and see if it helps.

our problem started when the exercise riders bailed off every time he did something that was not routeen and that tells the horse the more he misbehaves the less he has to work..

My theory is the best friends horses have are electric fencing and discipline

griff

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:18 am 
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Let me know how that product works Griff .....I'm also sending my gelding back to the man who broke him he is young also and takes his time with horses when payne left his farm last time he was doing everthing he asked happliey. BEST OF LUCK WITH YOUR GELDING.....

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:04 am 
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Good news 3 year old gelding went to a diffrent trainer and is doing well, he has been learning his lessons and progressing nicely, he is not being forced and is training willingly..LESSON LEARNED-- diffrent strokes for diffrent follks.....yea....

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:35 am 
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Glad to hear you found someone who can work with your gelding!


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