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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:27 am 
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Leading Sire

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Location: Yorktown, VA
That's what I'm trying to find out and hopefully prevent. my fear is it's genetics

griff

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Are they raised in open pasture? Stalled/broke at what age? Just curious

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:41 pm 
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Leading Sire

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Location: Yorktown, VA
Both my colt and his half brother were raised in 3 tg 4 acre paddocks.. I took my colt to a Horse Whisper when he was 12 months old for 30 days where he was civilized and even put under saddle in a round pin but with no rider.. loads, walks across wooden bridges, has no trouble with paper feed sacks, flags, beach balls and so forth.. He also gained a ton of weight during those 30 days even though grain was cut to a minimum with free choice hay.

My yearling is back in a 3 acre paddock with two other colts and is doing fine.. He's getting a complete feed, free choice hay and free choice , 20/20 plus 2 ounces of gelatin once a day. The drought has taken care of all the grass but we have hopes one day it will rain.

I'm thinking about putting him under saddle around January , at age 22 months with only walk, trot canter for a couple of months and then X ray his knees. If they are closed we will proceed to a 15 second furlong work once a week and see how things go.

griff

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:12 am 
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I don't know why, but it seems that every young horse puts on a growth spurt when they get some structured exercise. You really have to watch the little buggers, sometimes you have to back off when they do this. Two steps forward and one step back type thing.

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 Post subject: Knees
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:56 am 
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Maiden Special Weight
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Location: Ontario
As mentioned, watch for the growth spurt at onset of exercise.

Never seen it done, but estrogen manipulation might be your only bet for early closure. One way to look at it might be that the later closing on your bloodlines might have something to do with a difference in estrogen production genetics. If you have the willingness, it might be worth talking to a university or call one of the big KY medical units.


Good Racing,
KH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:06 am 
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Maiden Special Weight
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Location: Ontario
Steroids. 2002 Apr;67(5):361-9. Related Articles, Links


Sex steroids in serum of prepubertal male and female horses and
correlation with bone characteristics.

Lemazurier E, Toquet MP, Fortier G, Seralini GE.

Laboratory of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, University of Caen,
Esplanade de La Paix, 14032 Caen Cedex, France.

We used radioimmunoassay (RIA) to measure monthly serum levels of
unconjugated and conjugated sex steroids (testosterone T,
androstenedione A, estradiol E(2), and estrone E(1)) in 4 male and 4
female foals during their first year of life. Maximal production of
sex steroids was detected from April to August with hormonal peaks,
corresponding to the natural breeding season in adults. In males,
only A levels were more steady. Total estrogens (unconjugated plus
conjugated E(2) and E(1)) were the major steroids in immature males
in contrast to adults. Estrogens generally peaked in young females
before males; the major estrogen was E(1), and total estrogens
overtook total androgens (unconjugated and conjugated T and
unconjugated A). We also sampled 3 male and 3 female foals with bone
alterations in adulthood. For all animals, serum levels of four bone
formation markers were obtained: osteocalcin (O), hydroxyproline
(HP), and alkaline phosphatase (AP), and a radiographic score was
determined. Only male foals with normal skeletal frame (good
radiographic score GRS) in adulthood showed a correlation (P < 0.01)
between the distribution frequency of each bone formation marker and
unconjugated E(2) or E(1) levels; this finding highlighted the role
of unconjugated estrogens in bone maturation in horses, since this
was not found in the groups with bone alterations. In females, the
threshold of estrogen synthesis and sensitivity was probably
sufficient to be a nonlimiting factor at this stage of development.
Our results strongly suggest a differential regulation of the
estrogen/androgen balance in horses according to sex, sexual
maturation, and photoperiod. Moreover, estrogens appear to be crucial
for skeletal development in male colts, and these steroids are good
modulators of skeletal frame characteristics in adulthood.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:19 am 
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Maiden Special Weight
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Location: Ontario
And if you're really adventurous, give these guys a call as they appear to be well familiar with growth plate and hormone interactions (This in no way means I like what they do or sell, but if you get someone on the phone, I suspect you'd get alot of good background info)

If you learn anything, please post :D

http://heighteffects.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:32 pm 
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Leading Sire

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Posts: 3519
Location: Yorktown, VA
gallop58

Could not find a phone number or email adress but this stuff looks like something that humans take to postpone the closing of the growth plates so they will grow taller.. I think I am looking for the opposite

I'll do some more google searchingh and let you know if I find anything

griff

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:20 am 
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Maiden Special Weight
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Location: Ontario
There's an email address on the contact page.

[email protected]

Yes, their product is for the opposite, but I've read some forum posts from these guys and they are clearly up to speed on the hormone interaction and growth plate closure. My logic was that they might be able to give feedback on your situation as they seem to know the relationship intimately.

Good Racing,

KH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Leading Sire

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:18 pm
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Location: Yorktown, VA
that's what i'm trying to find out.. probably genetics. geldings close later than colts and maybe the fact we do not plan to geld thisn one will cause him to close earlier than his half brothers who were gelded.

griff

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Restricted Stakes Winner

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griff wrote:
that's what i'm trying to find out.. probably genetics. geldings close later than colts and maybe the fact we do not plan to geld thisn one will cause him to close earlier than his half brothers who were gelded.

griff


They say the colt's bones set faster than geldings. So that sounds right

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