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 Post subject: Calcium Balanced Feed
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:37 am 
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I have read that most horse feed has a an inverse calcium to phosphorus ratio of 1/7 while the ideal ration is, at minimum, 1/1 ond even better 2/1

This inverse 1/7 ration causes the horse system to pull calcium for it's bones in an attempt to "balance" the ration; i.e. at least 1/1.

Feeding alfalfa will supply ample calcium to balance the excess phosphorus that comes with grain rations but most other hay is 1/1 which is balanced but does not provide any extra calcium to balance the excess of phosphorus in gain.

The most economical way to "fix" this problem is to supplement powder fine ground limestone that you can buy at lowes or any other such store. This works great with horses in training or racing but not so good with turn-outs, brood mares, and weanling/yearlings that are being fed together; especially when you have a lot of "group" mares that must be fed.

Have read that some feeds have been calcium balanced so the calcium/phosphorus ration is t least one to one.

Does anyone one have any suggestions on calcium balanced feeds?

griff

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:29 am 
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Tiz Whiz

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Thanks

looks like their tag says 0.80% to 1.30 % calcium

I believe that 8 ounces in a 50 # bag or one pound per 100 poundsof feed.

oats and barley have an inverse calcium to phosphorus ration of 1/8 and brans is even worse at 1/10 .

Do you think 8 ounces of calcium citrate per 50 pounds of inverse 1/8 or even 1/5 calcium to phosphorus ratios ????

griff

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Location: canada
they have various feeds now,some pelleted ,I used the broodmare one with the chubby type quarter mares ,the TB mares I used the 16% pellets,plently of good canadian hay,at will.
What type of horses,broodmares,young ones,racing??
I never use any supplements on mares and only wean naturally the next spring,no cribfeeding,controled only.
Since I started the "natural" weaning and the tizwhiz and hay only i never had another case of OCD...On the other hand lots of people here have growing problems and feed all kind of expensive stuff...
I liked my yearlings to look like yearlings not grown-ups...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:29 pm 
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Also they now have a supplement and give a receipe go to the website.
I personaly like very much to base my diet on great hay,timothy and 10-20% max of Alfafa then add only what is needed if we talk athletes like racehorses.My partner likes commercial feed I don't ,I want to know exactly what I feed,real oats,corn,barley,chia seeds,sunflower seeds,beet pulp,rice...whatever I want to be able to see touch and know.And I calculate and analyse,a real crazy woman.
But on breeding farm or riding,pleasure horses or simply growing ones I really trust TizWhiz.I have to travel hundred of miles for it...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:15 pm 
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Leading Sire

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the problem is oats and barley has 7 times as much phosphorus as calcium.. when horses are on good grass or getting enough alfalfa with has more calcium than phosphorus things tend to balance out

However horses in race training seldom see grass and are fed great amounts of grain with an inverser calcium to phosphorus ration of 1/5 to 1/7 and the minium balanced ration is 1/1 or better yet 2/1 or two parts calcium citrate for every part phosphorus
Horses "store" calcium in their bones and when the ration of calcium to phosphorus gets inverted say 1/3 the horses body pulls calcium from the horses bones.. The worse the inversion the more calcium is pulled from the hoses bones .

Hypothetical situation is s brood mare, or weanling, yearling or 2 yo in training is fed 100% oats and all the orchard grass hay it can eat and you have a very serious situation as oats have 7 times as much phosphorous as calcium and orchard grass hay has sightly more phosphorous then calcium.

Now the horses diet has at least 7 times the phosphorus as it does calcium and the horses system goes into high gear pulling calcium from the horses bones..

"BigHead" is one result and another is blamed on brain mash is called brain something.. My concern is the heavy feeding of grain rations to young 2 YO in training which is being fed an inverse calcium/phosphorus of say 1/3 or 1/4 while bone remodling is going on/..

the fix is alfalfa hay but if you don't like too much alfalfa hay, which I don't, the simple solution is to supplement powder fine ground limestone like the stuff you can but from Lowes.. It must be powder fine ground or it will run thought a horse like whole oats through an old brood mare.

I know the fix but am looking for a way to get the right amount od calcium citrate on brood mares, weanlings and yearlings they rune together w/o mixing individual rations; especially when they sometimes trade feed buckets

so I am looking for commercial feed with enough calcium citrate added to result in an overall 1/1 or 2/1 calcium to phosphorus rather than a 1/7 inverse ratio.

And I don't think 8bounces of calcium be 50 pounds of 1/7 grain is going to do the trick

griff

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:54 am 
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horses in training fed only orchard grass and grain?
I never did that,I do fed tomothy and alfafa plus a balanced feed and minerals that I have prepare my own receipe or tizwhiz again.
I alway had mares and foals either on canadian pasture so mix timothy,clover(not red)and our rough alfafa(not the same as the southern one)and tizwhiz...Winter they are on snow/ice/dry lots so I feed hay again not coastal or orchard...but timothy and alfafa.If I have no bales of alfafa then pelleted in emergency situation.But tizwhiz. I bring my own hay from the north when I had a farm in the south or bough from dealer again TA mix.
I guess in your case you have to analyse your hay first but if it is so unbalanced then you have to find feed that supplement.But how to guarantee that horses eat the right amount of supplements or grain when in big group if they all eat together.How about feed stalls?
I like to have variation in my hay not just tomothy or just alfafa or else.In my area it is easy,I see you are in Virginia?Ohio,Michigan and NewYork have great hay.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:30 pm 
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I am not sure there is a way to accomodate the nutrritional needs of weaners, yearlings, and broodmares all at the same time without splitting them up to feed them. :?

One of my owners who breeds feeds free choice alfalfa and uses the protein/vitamin/mineral/molasses lick tubs. She grows a nice horse, but still keeps them seperated according to age. I do not know how many tubs she goes through, either.

When I ran a breeding farm in IL we fed all our horses "from the ground up" every day. We had a hammer mill, an oats bin, a corn bin, and a gravity wagon a year of extruded bean meal. We used Moorman's mineral premix in the feed and and did have a fat supplement for the late term and lactating mares and for the weaners. I still feed my racehorses individually mixed rations with cooked oats/soaked beet pulp/soybean meal/ and a fat supplement. I got tired of the inconsistancy in commercial feeds.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:36 pm 
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let me restate my question

does anyone know of a calcium balanced forse feed that has at lease one calcium for every phosphorus for a 1/1 calcium/phosphorus ratio??

griff

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:32 am 
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www.tizwhizfeeds.com
all of the products...
Most companies put the analysis of their feed on the internet...I have looked at a few and most have a 1-1 or more ratio of calcium to phosphorus...May be I don't get the question?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:47 pm 
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Leading Sire

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maybe I need to go back and read read the tags again. a 1/1 calcium/phosphorus us certainly acceptable

griff

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:31 am 
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http://www.tizwhizfeeds.com/products/pd ... intain.pdf

http://horse.purinamills.com/products/o ... 32696.aspx


just exemples

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