physitis

[madelyn]

I'm feeding straight recleaned top quality northern racehorse oats, hulls and all. When I got rid of all the molasses based feeds I got rid of ulcers, some cribbing, "the shits", etc. etc. etc. The horse I have that needs weight is being supplemented with soaked beet pulp and cracked corn and he is starting to gain satisfactorily. We had him on a bit of Fasttrack and that has helped and this week we are starting to add in soybean meal. The broodmare mix is oats with pellets, a bit of corn, a bit of Calf Manna-type supplement and some soybean meal.

Pricewise, the oats are $11 per 100 lbs, the broodmare mix is $7.75 for 50 lbs. Beet Pulp is $7.95/40 lb bag and cracked corn is $3.50/50 lb. Soybean meal, which is also a good additive, is $11/100 lb.

Mineral blocks are $4 for 50 lb... and the 200 lb Kent mineral buckets were on sale last month for $29.

[pembroke]

Recleaned Canadian oats. They are hard to find around here.

[austique]

Whoopee! I hauled my butt down to Tractor Supply Company and found a molasses free, oat based feed which is put out by a Oklahoma based feed mill. I may need to fiddle with it a little, but I was so happy when I found it.

[Shammy Davis]

Madelyn: I definitely like the way you think. I'm currently re-reading "Are your horses trying?" by Fred Rickaby (SAF). He is one of the few trainers I know of in the world who has included a chapter on teeth in his book. From his chapter on digestion and feeding: "When a horse comes into training its ration consists mainly of oats, lucerne, bran, carrots, a roughage of hay (teff) and some freshly cut greenstuff. In this ration the ratio of calcium to phosphorus is not correct. The phosphorus is too high. . . To balance the mineral ratio it is necessary to feed a calcium supplement. The quanitity required will vary with the amount of oats, lucerne, and bran fed*. . . The next important point to remember is that protein determines growth and sturdiness. The necessary protein can be supplied with oats, lucerne, beanmeal, and peanut meal. The last two are usually fed in pellet form." *Unfortunately he does not give a schedule for the calcium supplement.

Fred Rickaby's first cousin is Lestor Piggott. Both were jockeys. Their fathers were jockeys. Fred moved SAF in his twenties to train. As we are discussing a disease that occurs predominately in juveniles, I'm sure his thoughts are relevant to us all. One point that Fred makes and is important to remember. Each horse is an individual. We must remember that and work with them occordingly. TEB makes the point that her program is working and I for one would not tell her or anyone else to change it. If it ain't broke, as the saying goes. I have found, as my youngest daughter is an eventer, that warmbloods and WB/crosses are in a league all their on. My daughter's trainer is a Belgian WB breeder/judge and I must tell you that I've never seen such gigantic growth spurts in foals as I've seen at her farm. Most of her colts are gelded at 5 to 6 months just to maintain reasonable size. Otherwise, I have no doubt they would be well over 17 hands when adults. That's scary when you have been around QH's and TB's the majority of your life, like I have.

[aurora]

I had the original post re the foal that came home from the stallion farm with lumpy ankles. I weaned the little fatty early, fed him only hay, limited his exercise with stall rest for 2 weeks and then small paddock turnout. Now his legs look great. His ankles are nice and smooth with no contractions. He is now back out in the big pasture with the other horses and receiving his 2x day grain.

[Shammy Davis]

That's special. I know you are relieved.

[aurora]

austique,
I feed a pellet called Tuff Horse it is supposed to be very much like a feed developed by Ohio State University called Tiz Whiz. I buy it by the ton from Mid America feed mill in Collinsville, OK.

It depends on where you live, Stillwater Milling (Claremore, etc.) makes several different kinds of feed and I know some farms buy one variety from SM to fatten up their yearlings for sale. I just haven't tried them.

[teb]

Shammy makes a good point about Alfalfa. Here in Ireland we don't get lucerne hay ready made. You can in France, we only have Irish hay which is what comes out of the farmers fields! Actually there are two types of hay: horse hay and cow hay. Our hay is very good but I stick a handful of Alfalfa Chaff in to feeds at night. It's an alfalfa blend and green straw mix. It's nice and has extra calcium added and is balanced. Just thought you'd like to know our forage system here. Oh and any of the trainers I have been around here think hay is the route of all evils. They use haylage which is hay wrapped in plastic as soon as cut. It then ferments for a few months and you use it. I'm not a big haylage fan and all the trainers I worked for in the states feed ad-lib forage and win grade ones so it can't be evil.
teb

[Shammy Davis]

Haylage, known in NA as silage, is predominately used by diary farmers. It is an excellent source of nutrition and I've always wondered why NA horse farms have not turned to it. I think one reason is that production and storage have very limiting factors for the small operation. In my studies, I've come to the realization, particularly with contemporary racing and sport horse operations, that expediency is the key. Hay is difficult to store and maintain especially in large scale racing operations like track barns. Further, hay brokers take the trainers to the cleaners on price and delivery. If I paid what the NA trainer paid for a good bale of hay, I be sour on it too.

One thing I've learned over the years is that if you want top quality hay, buy it from a diary farmer. There production is totally dependent on top quality hay and they spare nothing to insure they have it. A beef producer can get buy on much less, especially if he operating a feeder lot.

TEB, I wonder what sort of nutrition program the Irish Stud places their juveniles on. I was their in 1997 with my family. Beautiful station, it 'tis. We got a very informative tour. The Japanese Gardens are elegant. We stayed in Wexford. It was early Spring, and we had to return to the US before the races got going. I hope we can return to enjoy that part of Ireland someday.

[teb]

Actually the haylage and silage are 2 diffrent things here. The Japanese Gardens are beautiful. I love the National Stud. I would actually like to use Celtic Swing on one of my mares this year, but not sure she is good enough for him.
If you ever do come back, give us a shout!
Nice chatting Shammy!
teb

[pembroke]

Shammy, Silage isn't fed to horses because it heats up, ferments, and frequently molds!! Cows can handle that since their stomach and digestive systems are so different. Silage is also "chopped"... the peices would cause definate problems in the horses gut. I do know a few horses who live on cattle lots and do eat the silage...but it would kill most horses!
Being a product of a huge dairy operation I can personally testify to the above.

[austique]

And silage is way stinky

Aurora,

I'm way out east in BRD land so my choices are the Co-op or Tractor Supply Company or the really small feed stores where the feed is... um ... not fresh. I'm found a feed by Bluebonnet that is molasses free and am slowly switching over to it. I think its called Nature's Choice. I'm just not much of a pellet girl.

[Shammy Davis]

Pembroke: Thanks for the info on silage. To be honest, I had never thought to ask why equine nutrition didn't include it. What you say makes sense. A couple of years back, I helped a farmer nearby chop his silage and Austique is right, it stinks. The processing is messy too. I stayed in the shower for over an hour just to rid myself of the chop and smell. I've never offered to help since then.

[Inyureye]

heats up, ferments, and frequently molds

Whew, I was right. This is what I always thought, I remember now asking about that when I was like 10 hanging around barns and they looked at me like I was nuts, and someone said just that - no, horses couldn't tolerate the fermented silage, cows are ruminants with a couple stomachs, then I got a lecture on horse digestions, colics, care, etc. I grew up in CT a strong dairy region and there was alot of silos on the farms where horses were. I had wondered why they weren't put to good uese by horses. No go, I guess.

[pembroke]

Shammy. Smart thinking...there is Nothing stinkier....well......maybe a male goat!!!