BACKGROUND
The adoption of my filly went into effect on December 1st, 2005. At her former barn, she was mishandled and had a reputation for being a nasty horse. For the most part, only the barn manager handled her, until I started working with her at the very end of September. Before I moved her to a boarding facility, she was leading calmly for almost everyone, even with all her trust issues. As a yearling, she used to walk in on just her hindlegs.
Before I started working with her, she'd rear all the time when being walked in, spooked at everything for no reason, pinned people against the stall, and tried to kick the living daylights out of anyone who came near her feet. She also would kick at anyone who went near her belly and would rear and throw her head up whenever anyone went near her head or ears. She also had never been taught to crosstie, etc.
She was on turnout, with only a few exceptions due to extreme weather, from 2pm until 7am every day. She hadn't been worked in a round pen for almost a year and occasionally was stocked up. She also was very barn sour and would try to lunge at anyone who came into her stall, especially where food was concerned.
Before I moved her, which happened on Dec 1st, I had taught her to lead quietly, without lunging out of the stall, and without trying to pull you back into the barn. She stopped rearing and shying at everything, and tolerated being groomed. She also learned to crosstie quietly, allow her feet to be picked, and have her head and ears handled without hesitation.
She also learned that she wouldn't be shanked if she was just scared of something, and instead of trying to bolt whenever spooked, she would take a stride forward instead, and wait for my reaction. When she saw none, she'd just go back to being calm and resuming grazing. She also lets me handle her belly and udder without dancing around or trying to kick. She hasn't tried to pin anyone to the stall and now moves away from pressure on her side.
The problem is, however, that the boarding barn, which promised she could be turned out as often as I wanted her to be, now has refused to turn her out for more than 40 minutes. I'm unhappy at the barn because I don't think it's fair for her to be cooped up in a stall for over 23 hours at a time, especially when I live over an hour away while not at college and don't have a permit, license, or a vehicle to visit her.
I'm lucky if I can get there every 3-5 days due to everyone in my family working. Usually one of my friends will drive me down to see her, because when she doesn't see me at least every 3 days, she becomes a handful for everyone at the new barn. I requested that she only be handled by the barn manager, but they're not humoring my request.
She trusts the barn manager just enough not to give her any trouble when being led in or out. That aside, they've taken great care of her stall and having her fed and watered. She's gained a little weight, which means that I don't see her ribs anymore, but they're easily felt. She's really bored in her stall all the time, and seems to enjoy being handwalked whenever I visit her.
WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO
She knows how to lunge comfortably at the W/T/C, although she never has been lounged outside of a roundpen. She trusts me and considers me her security blanket. I've never had an issue handling her after the first two days of working with her. She's adapted to the new barn quite well. I'm concerned about her lack of turnout. Now that she's been sound and hasn't stocked up in a month, her farrier is coming out in about a week, and once she's trimmed (we needed to grow her feet out a bit, as they'd been trimmed at a 60* angle and we'd like her to be closer to 50 or 45*), he said I would be fine to start working her again.
I've decided that since she's never been ridden, I would resume her loungework and slowly get her back into shape. I would like her to be physically fit so that she developes some muscle and stamina before she's asked to freejump or jump whilst on the loungeline. I'm not sure if I should wait to teach her to be ridden until she's back in peak physical shape, or if I should wait to teach her jumping on the flat until after she's been started under saddle.
Ideally, if she's sound and seems interested, I'd like to condition her so that when she's older (or her bones are fused enough), that she'd be able to start learning jumping and other aspects of eventing. She seems brave enough on the ground and her vet and farrier say her movement and speed should make her an ideal eventer, if she remains sound.
So, what do you recommend to get her back into training and fit enough to start more of her training? I'm very patient and wanted to start getting her into shape at a young age so that her training is easier later on. Any comments or opinions? I don't have a close association with trainers specializing in jumping or eventing. My riding trainer is very dressage oriented, but doesn't train horses anymore, and she's too far away to offer any insight.
Thanks for reading this and to any of you who comment!
Progress... Training... and now Conditioning
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster, madelyn
Progress... Training... and now Conditioning
"The best things in life are worth waiting for"
This is a toughy. If you start training her it doesn't seem like your going to be doing the training yourself. So, you are going to have to trust whoever is doing your conditioning. Is she not being turned out because of the weather? Sometimes a boarding facility has to accomodate more than your horse and think in the long term of managing their land. My paddocks are in crap at the moment from all the rain and as a result only the mares are out all day. I have the horses in training out for 2 hours after their exercise. I would like to leave them out more, but it's not possible at the moment. If she is being well looked after you should be thankful. I can completely understand the way you feel, but try and look at more than just your horse, which I know is very hard to do. I'm terrible for pampering and worrying about them.
teb
teb
Thanks for the reply 
I'm just frustrated with the barn (see next post)
But I'm going to keep training her myself. I just am not used to figuring how quickly to train... I know it's dependent on each horse's progress, but what's a safe method to condition her so that she's athletic enough for the next step of her training?
I'm just frustrated with the barn (see next post)
But I'm going to keep training her myself. I just am not used to figuring how quickly to train... I know it's dependent on each horse's progress, but what's a safe method to condition her so that she's athletic enough for the next step of her training?
Last edited by Rushtawin on Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The best things in life are worth waiting for"
Indeed. I just am frustrated with how they handled themselves unprofessionally. If a potential boarder asks you questions, you've got to stick to your answers. If she asks if you can guarantee turn out for a certain amount of time every day, and you say yes, then you need to stand by your word. And when asked about it, either stand by what you'd said initially or explain why it's been changed on a whim. 
If you as a barn manager know that a horse is unpredictable due to being mishandled in her past, then only send people who can handle it into her stall for feeding or to lead her in and out. If you're hand feeding treats, and the horse starts to nip you to get them, then kindly respect the owner's request not to hand feed treats and drop them in the bucket. The horse still recognizes that you're giving them a treat.
I don't know. Maybe I'm being too critical. But at every other barn I've worked at (5/+), we had to respect the owner's wishes. I'm not asking for special treatment, others in the barn have requested no hand feeding, x amount of turn out, etc. and they're taken seriously. I disclosed all of her issues, progress, neuroses, and everything to the barn before I sent her there, so them saying one thing and then doing another didn't sit too well.
It's so tempting to go up to them and be like, "Fine, don't take my requests seriously. But if she's hard to handle, or aggressive, then don't rant and rave for an hour or more that she's a liability. And if you don't want her at the facility due to whatever, let me know, and I will ship her elsewhere." I can understand issues with the weather, grounds management, or whatever, but aren't barn managers supposed to keep their word instead of just giving you lip service?
If you as a barn manager know that a horse is unpredictable due to being mishandled in her past, then only send people who can handle it into her stall for feeding or to lead her in and out. If you're hand feeding treats, and the horse starts to nip you to get them, then kindly respect the owner's request not to hand feed treats and drop them in the bucket. The horse still recognizes that you're giving them a treat.
I don't know. Maybe I'm being too critical. But at every other barn I've worked at (5/+), we had to respect the owner's wishes. I'm not asking for special treatment, others in the barn have requested no hand feeding, x amount of turn out, etc. and they're taken seriously. I disclosed all of her issues, progress, neuroses, and everything to the barn before I sent her there, so them saying one thing and then doing another didn't sit too well.
It's so tempting to go up to them and be like, "Fine, don't take my requests seriously. But if she's hard to handle, or aggressive, then don't rant and rave for an hour or more that she's a liability. And if you don't want her at the facility due to whatever, let me know, and I will ship her elsewhere." I can understand issues with the weather, grounds management, or whatever, but aren't barn managers supposed to keep their word instead of just giving you lip service?
"The best things in life are worth waiting for"
Rushtawin,
Right, I would highly suggest you don't get your mare in peak physical shape before riding her. If she isn't broke, that's even worse. The last thing you want is a fit horse that's never had a rider. We break a lot of yearlings here and the last thing I want is a fit horse giving me a go. I'm too old for that crap anyway. Now if she has been broken, I still wouldn't lunge her for too long before riding her. Lunging is nice, but it's so boring for horses and hard on their legs. Lots of walking and trotting under saddle is going to give your mare a good base and develop muscles. I have an 11 year old that's been hacking out with the yearlings and is coming back from a serious injury so all I do is walk and trot trying to get collection and flexion without asking too many questions. I won't canter him until he's ready. And by the same token we do loads of flatwork with our babies here before they go into training and they have a super base under them, so when they get to the racing yard their muscles are are nicely developed along with the skeletal system. No pressure is put on them here. Getting up and yahooing them around and claiming their broke isn't my style.
As far as loose jumping is concerned, if you have a nice safe place to do it then let her have a few pops. Nothing serious, just see how she does it. I would always loose jump horses a bit as it teaches them to rely on themselves to jump. If you ever get into a tight situation you want to make sure your horse can get you out.
teb
Right, I would highly suggest you don't get your mare in peak physical shape before riding her. If she isn't broke, that's even worse. The last thing you want is a fit horse that's never had a rider. We break a lot of yearlings here and the last thing I want is a fit horse giving me a go. I'm too old for that crap anyway. Now if she has been broken, I still wouldn't lunge her for too long before riding her. Lunging is nice, but it's so boring for horses and hard on their legs. Lots of walking and trotting under saddle is going to give your mare a good base and develop muscles. I have an 11 year old that's been hacking out with the yearlings and is coming back from a serious injury so all I do is walk and trot trying to get collection and flexion without asking too many questions. I won't canter him until he's ready. And by the same token we do loads of flatwork with our babies here before they go into training and they have a super base under them, so when they get to the racing yard their muscles are are nicely developed along with the skeletal system. No pressure is put on them here. Getting up and yahooing them around and claiming their broke isn't my style.
As far as loose jumping is concerned, if you have a nice safe place to do it then let her have a few pops. Nothing serious, just see how she does it. I would always loose jump horses a bit as it teaches them to rely on themselves to jump. If you ever get into a tight situation you want to make sure your horse can get you out.
teb
Thanks so much for the insight! Okay, sounds good -
jumper77
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Hi!
I read your other post about the barn problem, too. I have experience with reschooling young TB's for h/j, but haven't ever had an unbroke one, so you can decide if my info is relevant or not...
First of all, I liked Teb's advice about not getting too fit. Hadn't thought of it that way, and it made me laugh because it's so true. Having to stick on a rowdy TB, even a kind one, can be hard enough by itself, let alone for the first time.
It sounds like she has so much to work on I wouldn't even worry about lungeing. I'm not a big fan of it anyway because of the damage to their legs when they're young. I wait until at least 3 yrs. before I even start to lunge. I think groundpoles and cavaletti are awesome to use AFTER you've got decent flatwork into her. And if you have a dressage background, she'll be better off than most who start jumping. But usually I don't jump more than about 18" until they're 4, and I don't do that too often. A groundpole is really the same as a jump to them. Until then, I think all they really need to know is 'that's a jump and you're supposed to jump them.' She'll be so far ahead of others when it's time to jump if she's w/t/c, bends & leg-yields, rounds up on the bit, extends, collects, blah, blah, blah...
A friend of mine has had her 3 yr. old since he was 6 mos. old, and she did SO MUCH stuff with him that when it came time to break him, she just climbed on, had a few little bucks, and that was it. Now the horse is a totally different temperment than yours, so it's not the same... However, the horse is close to bombproof. His ground manners are wonderful, and he's a colt. She can climb all around him, long-line him, walk thru sprinklers, put a plastic shopping bag on his head, have people jump off the roof when she walks by... you get the point. When it comes time to break her, you want her smart, not strong. And it'll make it so much easier to train later on.
So what's the excuse for no turnout? If it isn't temporary, are they cutting back her feed? That's all you need-- her bouncing off the walls! I'd sure be making a lot of noise if they weren't turning my horse out, regardless of age. That barn sounds kinda' sketchy.
So there's my long, rambling opinion. I hope things are going well for the two of you!
I read your other post about the barn problem, too. I have experience with reschooling young TB's for h/j, but haven't ever had an unbroke one, so you can decide if my info is relevant or not...
First of all, I liked Teb's advice about not getting too fit. Hadn't thought of it that way, and it made me laugh because it's so true. Having to stick on a rowdy TB, even a kind one, can be hard enough by itself, let alone for the first time.
It sounds like she has so much to work on I wouldn't even worry about lungeing. I'm not a big fan of it anyway because of the damage to their legs when they're young. I wait until at least 3 yrs. before I even start to lunge. I think groundpoles and cavaletti are awesome to use AFTER you've got decent flatwork into her. And if you have a dressage background, she'll be better off than most who start jumping. But usually I don't jump more than about 18" until they're 4, and I don't do that too often. A groundpole is really the same as a jump to them. Until then, I think all they really need to know is 'that's a jump and you're supposed to jump them.' She'll be so far ahead of others when it's time to jump if she's w/t/c, bends & leg-yields, rounds up on the bit, extends, collects, blah, blah, blah...
A friend of mine has had her 3 yr. old since he was 6 mos. old, and she did SO MUCH stuff with him that when it came time to break him, she just climbed on, had a few little bucks, and that was it. Now the horse is a totally different temperment than yours, so it's not the same... However, the horse is close to bombproof. His ground manners are wonderful, and he's a colt. She can climb all around him, long-line him, walk thru sprinklers, put a plastic shopping bag on his head, have people jump off the roof when she walks by... you get the point. When it comes time to break her, you want her smart, not strong. And it'll make it so much easier to train later on.
So what's the excuse for no turnout? If it isn't temporary, are they cutting back her feed? That's all you need-- her bouncing off the walls! I'd sure be making a lot of noise if they weren't turning my horse out, regardless of age. That barn sounds kinda' sketchy.
So there's my long, rambling opinion. I hope things are going well for the two of you!