I only said some alfalfa CAN be over 20%. I'm sure the average is lower, but dairy producers are looking for high protien, so it is out there and sold as 'high quality alfalfa" Here is an example:
Quality tested Alfalfa hay Posted on 12/29/2005
Ad Detail
4th cutting 3x3x7 150 rfv 24.4% protein
6th cutting 3x3x7 and 3x3x8 150 rfv 25.2% protein
Sold by the ton Contact Info.
Location: Venedy, IL
Contact: Steven Borrenpohl
http://www.fsa.usda.gov/Haynet/hayviewdetail.asp?ID=10368
Long, detailed post... creative ideas needed!
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster, madelyn
madelyn wrote:I'm not a nutritionist... but have been warned by all and sundry and my vet about over-doing protein for horses. Mare's milk is about 12% protein. Oats are about 11% and Alfalfa is SIXTEEN PERCENT. Too much protein will strip their kidneys. If you cut her grain, it has to be made up in other foodstuffs. You can't cut grain without upping hay. Alfalfa MIX is fine but pure alfalfa, as her only ration, is not. If her Safe Choice is a compound feed with molasses, it may be she needs a switch to oats to reduce the sugar in her diet (think hyperactive kids and candy bars). Regardless, she is still a filly and should be getting 3-4% of her total body weight per day in food. Whatever kind of food. So if she is 900 lbs, she needs about 36 lbs of food. My horses have free choice hay, and we feed all the non-brood or lactating horses oats. For the broodmares and lactating mares I have a 14% broodmare mix.
Also, too much protein can make a horse too "hot"... I had to cut my Morgan back to a lower percentage, because he could be a real PITA if he wasn't getting enough excercise... he turned into a different horse after the switch!
I had talked to my vet when we were going through trying different grains to get Bell's weight up (and reach a maintenance point)—I didn't want to give her too much volume, and I was hoping to not have to split her grain into three feedings. She wanted me to switch to a high-protein feed, but knowing how keyed up Freshi could get, I decided to call our local Nutrena rep., who is also a nutritionist.
She had recommended the new XTN feed—isn't the cheapest, but what it has is a higher fat content, balanced out with fiber. It does have the molasses in it, but Bell is as mellow as can be on it. It helped her put on weight (I was also giving her Nutrena's Empower, to quicken the results) and now she's just on the grain.
Not pushing Nutrena—just pointing out that our rep. said to increase her fat intake, which helps weight gain and it does provide calories (and I know it can be bad to go way overboard, as with people!).
My long-winded point is, I'd call your local feed rep.—if they're also a nutritionist, as mine is, they can help point you in the right direction. I wouldn't take her off grain entirely, but it could be the protein content is more than she does need, and it could be making her keyed up. It's free advice, anyway, to call!
Just a thought, based on my experience...
Well, everything's going pretty well. I've been seeing the filly every day for the last 5 days and of course, working with her. Tonight she was under saddle for the third time, the second time being yesterday, and the first time, ?two? days before that. The trainer has loaded her again calmly on the trailer, so amen to that. Tomorrow morning I'm calling the vet to get her teeth floated (her top ones are sharp), microchipped (she's not tatooed), and discuss the worming and feeding schedules.
I'm also considering asking if my vet sells Furazone or Coflex at a decent price. I'm out of the latter and I find it's worked nicely over gauze packed with Corona on her leg injury. Now her leg injury's healing and it hasn't been infected aside from the less than 24 hour timespan which was the time from the night she scraped it open to the following late morning when I detected it when I visited her. Her wound is dry and I've kept it clean and the swelling was gone today when I worked with it. I'm considering starting to use Schreiner's something-or-other formula-whose-name-I-forgot because a lot of people around here swear by it, especially the tack shoppe guy who gave me a little bottle for free when he noticed I was interested in it, but not wanting to waste my money on a product I hadn't heard of before that day. It can't hurt to try it, none of the ingrediants are harmful.
But yeah, the filly's doing great. My trainer (not my horse's trainer) and I were fitting saddles to her yesterday, most of the time, they fit her fairly well, but my trainer thinks those saddles would be too big for me and I think she's right. I'm hunting for a decent saddle that fits her, since mine doesn't. She's going to be a big girl, I swear she's grown since December. She's so affectionate and well behaved, I think she's happy with the fact that I'm the "alpha mare" and hasn't tested that in awhile. Her muscle tone is improving and she seems to be happier overall.
She's fun though. I decided to supplement vitamin E via gel tabs and she eats one whenever I offer it like a treat from my hand, and then looks for more. She had a little cut on her forehead and have been caring for it, but now that it's closed up, it's been healing faster (or so it seems) and I've been breaking open a Vitamin E gel cap and smearing it on it to help it heal faster.
Any thoughts or recommendations for a first aid kit? I have quite a few supplies already from the cut on her leg, etc.
I'm also considering asking if my vet sells Furazone or Coflex at a decent price. I'm out of the latter and I find it's worked nicely over gauze packed with Corona on her leg injury. Now her leg injury's healing and it hasn't been infected aside from the less than 24 hour timespan which was the time from the night she scraped it open to the following late morning when I detected it when I visited her. Her wound is dry and I've kept it clean and the swelling was gone today when I worked with it. I'm considering starting to use Schreiner's something-or-other formula-whose-name-I-forgot because a lot of people around here swear by it, especially the tack shoppe guy who gave me a little bottle for free when he noticed I was interested in it, but not wanting to waste my money on a product I hadn't heard of before that day. It can't hurt to try it, none of the ingrediants are harmful.
But yeah, the filly's doing great. My trainer (not my horse's trainer) and I were fitting saddles to her yesterday, most of the time, they fit her fairly well, but my trainer thinks those saddles would be too big for me and I think she's right. I'm hunting for a decent saddle that fits her, since mine doesn't. She's going to be a big girl, I swear she's grown since December. She's so affectionate and well behaved, I think she's happy with the fact that I'm the "alpha mare" and hasn't tested that in awhile. Her muscle tone is improving and she seems to be happier overall.
She's fun though. I decided to supplement vitamin E via gel tabs and she eats one whenever I offer it like a treat from my hand, and then looks for more. She had a little cut on her forehead and have been caring for it, but now that it's closed up, it's been healing faster (or so it seems) and I've been breaking open a Vitamin E gel cap and smearing it on it to help it heal faster.
Any thoughts or recommendations for a first aid kit? I have quite a few supplies already from the cut on her leg, etc.
"The best things in life are worth waiting for"
You can order furazone and coflex.. try www.countrysupply.com, www.valleyvet.com, www.americanlivestock.com, etc. They also have wormer REALLY cheap. First aid, I wouldn't be without Betadine (one of those catalogs has a generic Betadine that is around six bucks a quart). I wouldn't be without SMZ's (you can get a bottle from your vet), great all around antibiotics. I LOVE old mattress pads to cut into any old shape for wrapping and then it can be thrown away guilt free. Masking tape is good for a little extra help on coflex-type wraps. Epsom salts for soaking legs/feet. Granulex for proud flesh.. and on and on.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
Well, the filly dumped the trainer yesterday. He decided it'd be bright to try to ride her through an icy patch in the ring and when he got close to it, the ground got slippery, causing her to avoid the patch via shying at it and backing up... so she bucked once or twice and he somersaulted through the air and landed awkwardly but only barely grazed the arena wall. He was fine, stunned for a few seconds, and I was concerned because I didn't want him to get run over, and because there was another horse being handwalked by my friend in the arena.
So I called my mare (I was standing outside the arena, watching) and she came running over to me and stood quietly until the trainer got back on his feet. She managed to kick the wall when she bucked, but her leg seemed alright and her cut is healing pretty well. The trainer worked with her on the ground to show her that the scary patch wasn't so bad after all and then got on her and they trotted slowly through it without any problems. He also loped her a few times around the arena, nothing too strenuous, but isn't she a bit young for that? She'll be 33 months old in 3 days...
Also, I'm going to move her shortly to a different barn. The current barn owner said that if I was going to ship her out, now would be ideal because one of her clients desperately needs two stalls immediately since the barn she boarded her horses at closed.
The problem is that we're only on day #17 (I think?) of the mare's training, and the trainer is exclusive to the current barn. Although it's only 3 miles away, I doubt he'll follow her, and she's not at the point where I think she'd be comfy having me up there yet. He's gone from today until next Friday as well and insists that she has no more than a handful of grain in addition to her hay twice a day. I'm concerned because I feel she needs to be back on her grain because she needs the extra protein to let her keep growing and because she's being worked for an hour, usually under saddle, and she's already using her grain to stay warm and maintain weight (which she's dropped a little).
The vet's coming out Monday so that we can microchip her, update her worming schedule, float her teeth, and discuss which SmartPak combination is best for her, since the barn I'm moving her to uses the SmartPak system of feeding.
So I called my mare (I was standing outside the arena, watching) and she came running over to me and stood quietly until the trainer got back on his feet. She managed to kick the wall when she bucked, but her leg seemed alright and her cut is healing pretty well. The trainer worked with her on the ground to show her that the scary patch wasn't so bad after all and then got on her and they trotted slowly through it without any problems. He also loped her a few times around the arena, nothing too strenuous, but isn't she a bit young for that? She'll be 33 months old in 3 days...
Also, I'm going to move her shortly to a different barn. The current barn owner said that if I was going to ship her out, now would be ideal because one of her clients desperately needs two stalls immediately since the barn she boarded her horses at closed.
The problem is that we're only on day #17 (I think?) of the mare's training, and the trainer is exclusive to the current barn. Although it's only 3 miles away, I doubt he'll follow her, and she's not at the point where I think she'd be comfy having me up there yet. He's gone from today until next Friday as well and insists that she has no more than a handful of grain in addition to her hay twice a day. I'm concerned because I feel she needs to be back on her grain because she needs the extra protein to let her keep growing and because she's being worked for an hour, usually under saddle, and she's already using her grain to stay warm and maintain weight (which she's dropped a little).
The vet's coming out Monday so that we can microchip her, update her worming schedule, float her teeth, and discuss which SmartPak combination is best for her, since the barn I'm moving her to uses the SmartPak system of feeding.
"The best things in life are worth waiting for"
Okay, point(s) taken 
I think I should start taking a non-horse lover to Agway with me next time I shop. I spent over an hour in there and updated the horse's first aid/wound treatment kit, got her a toy, and a ton of other little things I needed for her.
Has anyone used Accel vitamin/mineral supplements before?
I think I should start taking a non-horse lover to Agway with me next time I shop. I spent over an hour in there and updated the horse's first aid/wound treatment kit, got her a toy, and a ton of other little things I needed for her.
Has anyone used Accel vitamin/mineral supplements before?
"The best things in life are worth waiting for"
Phew - because I compared a lot of different supplement options and it seemed to have the best balance, most complete vitamin/mineral list, and the added bonus of what looked like probiotics in it. I'm not sure how many 1 ounce servings are in the 5# tub though, but as far as price went, it was very well priced.
I splurge everytime I walk into Agway, Silver Maple Tack Shop, Tractor Supply Company, or any other place carrying horsey related stuff - including Eckerd's... which is a great source of gauze, cotton balls, povidone iodine 10%, Vitamin E, and antibacterial wipes (which make wound cleaning a lot easier and she doesn't seem to think they sting).
Today, from Agway, I picked up a Lik It (Mint flavor), white velcro bell boots, an 8 quart bucket, a finishing brush, a braiding aid, black bands, Mane N' Tail Antimicrobial Spray, Aloe Heal Vet Ointment, Absorbine Vet Liniment, Accel Vitamin/Mineral Supplement, Oster Mane/Tail Comb, Shedding Blade, Furazone, hoof dressing (I forgot its name), and 3M Vetrap. Most of the stuff was for the first aid kit or the beginning of her show equipment... I resisted the urge to get her treats, a newer bridle, clippers, and show sheen.
Show Sheen, Lazer Sheen... or what brand of finishing spray do you guys recommend for the show ring? She's definately being shown in hand this season to get her used to the show ring, and if I'm comfortable on her back by the time show season rolls around, I might enter her in the Growing & Training classes or Walk Trot classes. Trail could be fun... but I'm going to take my time because I'd like her to look forward to being ridden and shown for now
"The best things in life are worth waiting for"
whoa girl, slow down.. don't break the bank. I like Laser Sheen myself. Tip... don't put it where the saddle will go.
A lot of the stuff from Eckerd's is less expensive at the dollar store.
But I have 34 horses to buy for...
So your trainer got bucked off? Wow. Must have been embarrassing.
Regarding supplements, if she is a young filly, Equine Supreme or something can't hurt.. but for about five bucks you could put a trace mineral block in her stall and it would do much the same thing but is self regulated. As for the number of 1 oz servings in 5#, it is 5x16 so 80.
A lot of the stuff from Eckerd's is less expensive at the dollar store.
But I have 34 horses to buy for...
So your trainer got bucked off? Wow. Must have been embarrassing.
Regarding supplements, if she is a young filly, Equine Supreme or something can't hurt.. but for about five bucks you could put a trace mineral block in her stall and it would do much the same thing but is self regulated. As for the number of 1 oz servings in 5#, it is 5x16 so 80.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
Not rude at all... your horse, your rules. However, watch your friend on her. I've done that and left them alone and they were used to warmbloods and HUNG on the mouth and "ruined" the previous two weeks of training. (Said they had to "hold the horse up") Remember that each rider is actually different and the experience she has starting horses... it all depends on what kind of horses. You've watched the trainer you hired ride the filly... watch your friend and if she gets into any bad reactions like running out from under, ducking, overbending, etc., get her off your horse. THAT's where the rudeness might come in To hear some people talk they could ride/train ANYTHING... but to see them do it is sometimes something else altogether.
To hear some people talk they could ride/train ANYTHING... but to see them do it is sometimes something else altogether.So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
Perfect