Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

[louis finochio]

When a person thinks he knows it all, he will encounter many setbacks. It's those person's that keep searching for answers, will find them, because they didnt give up their cause.

If you want to quit now, it's ok with me, but i shall continue to search for answers. Yours in Sport, Louis.

[louis finochio]

DIRTY OLD TOWN (USA) dkb/br. G, 2008 DP = 4-6-14-0-0 (24) DI = 2.43 CD = 0.58 - 3 Starts, 1 Wins, 1 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $ 25,240

Breeder: Victory Crossing
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 3 Starts: 1 - 1 - 1, $ 25,240

DIRTY OLD TOWN br. G, 2008
Mingun---Flower, by Mountain Cat

DOT was pulled up after the wire & sustained a fractured LF sesamoid.
DOT was a type 2 FB, being inbred 4 X 5 Secretariat---4 X 5 ND---5 X 5 Bold Ruler---5 X 5 Graustark=Rabelais NP outcross

DOT had 22 crosses Ph. stallions & 12 crosses Ph. mares
DOT inherited the same Ph. individuals that are found inside the curve of unsoundness, they are:

Bold Reasoning, Bold Ruler 2 crosses, Buckpasser, Nearctic, ND 2 crosses, Secretariat 2 crosses, Never Bend, Native Dancer, Storm Cat, Natalma.

[Affirmed1]

[quote="ElPrado"]I'm waiting for FB type A/437/B/62 myself. But we won't see that unless the pigeons and albatrosses fly together off into the sunset. But it's coming.[/quote]

I think you meant A/437/B/62/Henny

[BenB]

When a person thinks he knows it all, he will encounter many setbacks. It's those person's that keep searching for answers, will find them, because they didnt give up their cause.

If you want to quit now, it's ok with me, but i shall continue to search for answers. Yours in Sport, Louis.

.

You can search, for answers till your weight will be less than 1 pd.

There are at least a thousand part answers, why horses breakdowns, as much as in the US. At least four times more than anywhere on this planet, where all the raceday medications are forbidden, and very stringent rules are counting.

The same counts for the US testing lab,s , most of them, are minor to all the accredited lab,s in the world.

It seems that most of the US racing buisiness, does not want to end this dirty game.

Louis, at least Parlo is having an university degree on this subject, and his work states facts and not carefull searched subjects.

A nice one from an other thread on this forum:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/beyond+paradise FB ++++

[parlo]

How is it possible that such a horse like Beyond Paradise has been able to survive 18 lifetime-starts? This should be impossible according to the famous "Louis-FB"-theory.


Hush-hush, btw.: I was warned off by Roquelet. We are a nice club meanwhile: Shammy Davis, Bast, ElPrado, parlo. Be careful, @BenB, you are the next best in that series -Big Brother is watching you!

[Affirmed1]

[quote="parlo"]How is it possible that such a horse like Beyond Paradise has been able to survive 18 lifetime-starts? This should be impossible according to the famous "Louis-FB"-theory.


Hush-hush, btw.: I was warned off by Roquelet. We are a nice club meanwhile: Shammy Davis, Bast, ElPrado, parlo. Be careful, @BenB, you are the next best in that series -Big Brother is watching you! [/quote]

I think that is discrimination. I haven't been warned off yet, and my comments have been at least as irritating as anyone elses. Geez Louise (American expression).

[louis finochio]

Ben: Send all your Euro FB to the US. Let's see how long they last with our training methods.

[BenB]

Louis, in the US they should get there sense back, overhere you have to run an course for getting an trainers license and more interesting an trainers license is a grant.

So you have to change the american way of dooiing things, and not the change from the horses.

as an licensed trainer, past owner, past part owner, breeder, past breeder any horse will break if your asking efforts, that are above his/ hers ability.

The use and the permittance from medications will only be a negative.

When horses can not meet the trainer/owners standards, you got to weed them out or give them an rest, instead of pushing the needle in them.

Reconstruction of the race program will also beneficial towards the horses,.

Louis, what about the horse i,ve put on the table Beyond Paradise????

If your theory was right, she never could make one step out of any barn, and certainly she would not survive any training?

what i,ve stated many, many times before the problem in the US, are the US in itself and most of the racing community.

Pouring horses out, that are finished many moons ago in an normal situation

why are Baffert, and Pletcher and many many others so keen on the raceday medication, they are able to make an early profit for their owners, by training and racing beyond the natural ability from their horses.

But Louis, how about Beyond Paradise????????????????????????????

Louis, send them horses over here, they will face big turf tracks, poluted free enviroment, skilled trainers, and the time to mature.

http://www.drf.com/news/round-table-uni ... on-enforce

[louis finochio]

BEYOND PARADISE (USA) b. M, 2003 DP = 5-4-9-0-0 (18) DI = 3.00 CD = 0.78 - 18 Starts, 5 Wins, 1 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $31,081

Owner: Michael Power
Breeder: Dahlberg Ranch Inc.
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 18 Starts: 5 - 1 - 1, $31,081

BEYOND PARADISE b. M, 2003
Langfuhr---Victory Trick, by Clever Trick

BP is a type 2 FB, being inbred 3 X 4 ND---4 X 4 X 4 X 5 Nearctic---5 X 5 Native Dancer---4 X 5 Natalma---5 X 5 X 5 Lady Angela=Hyperion NP outcross.

BP has 22 crosses NP mares & 10 crosses NP stallions

The inbreeding to Nearctic is a positive for soundness, Nearctic started 47 times. Lady Angela dam of Nearctic brings soundness into this type 2 FB mating, as LA 3 crosses of inbreeding is a positive, as it adds those outcrosses of NP.

We dont see prolific crosses of those PH. individuals that appear in those type 1 FB matings of unsoundness, they are:

Mr. P., Bold Reasoning, Storm Cat, Turn-to, Hail to Reason, Tom Fool, Menow, Nashua, Gold Digger.

[louis finochio]

Those FB need more med thn those NFB, thats why Baffert & Pletcher want race day med. A high % of those FB have went to the sidelines with injuries. It happens every year, when those 3 yr. old are in training for the TC races. Your TC races are spaced months apart, ours are not.

[DDT]

Louis

You acknowledge that Fashion Breds do very well all over the world and specifically in Europe and attribute that fact to training methods. While training is one of the most significant causes in fatal breakdowns, it is not the only difference in racing overseas. The surface, the dynamics of racing (slow pace early and running late), no race day medications and no winter racing are also significant factors in fatal breakdowns. All data concerning racing surface confirms that synthetic surfaces have the lowest rate of fatal breakdowns followed closely by turf and then dirt, which has the highest number of fatal breakdowns. My question to you is if this is true everywhere else in the racing world why is it not true here in America? You want to blame the high rates of fatal breakdowns on inbreeding, the same inbreeding patterns that continue to produce champions here and abroad. Inbreeding to one sire line is not a major cause of fatal breakdowns.

DDT

[louis finochio]

From 1945---1980, we had 3 vets take care of 2500 NFB tbs. From 1981---2012 we have over 25 vets take care of 1500 FB. That stat reflects of how our soundness has taken a big hit.

[Roguelet]

Hush-hush, btw.: I was warned off by Roquelet. We are a nice club meanwhile: Shammy Davis, Bast, ElPrado, parlo. Be careful, @BenB, you are the next best in that series -Big Brother is watching you!

Parlo, you were not "warned off" of this thread. I will always defend someone's right to have their own opinion and their right to share that opinion in a discussion. You can post to this thread 100 times a day for all I care. The real issue is breaking the forum rules multiple times. I sent you a private message in which I indicated several examples of forum rules that you have repeatedly broken while posting in this thread. Your response here is not an appropriate one and, technically, itself goes against three forum rules.


To all:

This post is going to be long, but anyone who plans on participating in this thread or referencing it in any way anywhere else on this forum needs to read it carefully.

There are a handful of you who refuse to recognize the fact that Louis has the right to post his ideas and theories without being personally insulted, regardless of how you feel about those ideas and theories. You repeatedly insult the person instead of responding to the ideas, and you refuse to curb your behavior when you are reminded that this type of treatment of others is against the rules. You certainly do not have to like the rules, but if you want to post here you DO have to abide by them.

I have allowed much more to "slide" on this thread than I would anywhere else, probably due in large part to the fact that this thread doesn't escalate into the all-out war that repeatedly insulting someone and their opinions does everywhere else on the forum... but that does not make this behavior any less against the rules. Some people appear to believe that that the forum rules and moderator warnings do not pertain to this thread. Perhaps that's partially my fault for being more lenient here... but that will be corrected now.

Anyone who plans on posting on this thread from this point forward or referencing this thread in any way anywhere else on the forum should very carefully read the forum rules before hitting "submit." If what you plan to post includes anything that is not in line with the rules; anything that would not be appropriate to post, for example, in response to a new member on a discussion about vaccines on a different sub-forum, then it is equally inappropriate here and you need to revise your response.

There have been numerous public warnings on this thread alone, and I have no doubt that anyone who is even loosely following this thread has seen at least some, if not most of them; and anyone following the thread right now will definitely see this one. The copious warnings, both public and private, that have been issued on this particular subject are MORE than enough to be fair, and no more will be issued.

From this post forward, anyone who wants to discuss the opinions offered in this thread needs to do so without including any personal insults or grievances about moderators, posters, or this thread as a whole. This includes "tongue in cheek" comments and "oh, I was just fooling around" comments... and adding a smiley at the end of an insult does NOT undo the insult. Anyone who does not heed this warning will have their account temporarily deactivated immediately.


I am fully aware that this is going to anger some of you, but I also know that allowing this behavior to continue toward a fellow poster has been angering others for quite some time. Much more important than the issue of who is pleased and who is irritated, though, is that the rules here are very clear and they were put in place for a reason. Blatant rule-breaking behavior that continues despite multiple warnings leads to the overall deterioration of not only the thread in question but also of the forum as a whole. When it is evident that posters can constantly get away with breaking the rules and ignoring warnings, others are much more likely to react in kind to someone or something that they might not like or agree with. This can cause the forum as a whole to spiral into a raging, ongoing snark-fest, creating a negative environment and leading to a drop-off in participation. I've seen it happen before on this forum, and it's starting to happen again now. This is why the behavior must stop immediately.

This post is lengthy because it includes everything that I have to say about what will occur and why it will occur. The reason that every bit of relevant information is in this single post is because I will not be discussing this further; not on this thread, elsewhere on the forums, or via PM. There is no place for comments pertaining to this specific decision; it is not up for discussion at this time. Everything has been clearly explained so as to leave no doubt about the reasons behind this action at this time as it pertains to this particular thread. There are no motives or interests involved other than enforcing the forum rules and doing what is best for the forum as a whole.

To sum this up; if you discuss the topic in this thread appropriately, you will be perfectly fine. If you don't, it will demonstrate your refusal to post under the guidelines of the forum rules as well as your refusal to respect warnings issued in the interest of the forum... in that case, the forum will benefit from your temporary absence while a tone is established that encourages respect for the rules as well as positive participation.


Whether you feel that this is too harsh, or that personal insults continued way too long and therefore this was not harsh enough, or that an appropriate amount of "second chances" was given, cast your vote in the poll currently running in the general forum. Be sure to vote for the option that you feel should apply to ALL posts in ALL sub-forums across the ENTIRE board; from threads like this one to "for sale" postings to discussions about the triple crown races. Comments are allowed and encouraged on the poll, but only those comments that do not go against the forum rules OR the warnings posted here.

[BenB]

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vorl/loca ... 040912.pdf all about bone fractures.

weakening of bones after stress fractures, leads to breakdowns.

Regarding the use of racedaymedication:



“Over the last 10 years 5275 samples have been taken from racehorses in training by the regulator of horseracing. Medications have been detected in around 15% of these samples (some horses will be receiving more than one medication). The prevalence of findings of furosemide was 0.11%, i.e. it was detected in 6 horses. Furosemide is not allowed on raceday in Great Britain. Recent studies of all cases of visible bleeding from the nose after racing over the last 10 years by the University of Nottingham showed a prevalence of such epistaxis of 0.13% in flat racehorses, and that British trainers consistently chose to electively rest affected horses for longer that the statutory rest periods mandated in other racing jurisdictions.” Source: British Horseracing Authority

Another study by the UC davies school in California about bone fractures:
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vorl/loca ... 062712.pdf

[diomed]

From 1945---1980, we had 3 vets take care of 2500 NFB tbs. From 1981---2012 we have over 25 vets take care of 1500 FB. That stat reflects of how our soundness has taken a big hit.

If you have a statistical analysis that you can base this on, prove it other wise don't use the word stat.