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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:47 pm 
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Darley line

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After tracing the sire lines, of AP stallions & mares in his 5 generation pedigree, this is how they appeared.

AP has 12 crosses of Nasrullah, in his 5 generation pedigree, thru his stallions & mares.

10 crosses of of Native Dancer---9 crosses of ND--- 4 crosses Tom Fool---3 crosses Petition---1 cross Fair Trial.

If your mare has prolific crosses of Nasrullah, Native Dancer, & ND, it would be best to seek another stallion.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:51 pm 
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SKY DEVIL (USA) b. C, 2013 {7-b} DP = 6-7-12-1-0 (26) DI = 2.71 CD = 0.69 - 4 Starts, 1 Wins, 0 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $20,338

Owner: Michael S. Ferraro and Blue Star Stable
Breeder: Blue Star Stable & Mike Ferraro
State Bred: NY
Winnings: 4 Starts: 1 - 0 - 0, $20,338

Foaled January 18, 2013.
9/4/2015-FL-broke maiden in 2cd career start. MSW 5.5f 1:06:97 Trainer: Michael Ferraro

Broke down & vanned off from the New York Breeders' Futurity at Finger Lakes on October 17, 2015. RIP.

SKY DEVIL b. C, 2013
Sky Mesa---Lovely Daniella by Gold Token

Sky Devil was a type 1 FB, that has the highest risk for a career ending injury.
Sky Devil was inbred to 5 Ph. stallions.
4 X 5 Mr. P.---5 X 5 Secretariat---5 X 5 X 5 ND---5 X 5 Exclusive Native---4 X 5 RAN. 1 Ph. mare 4 X 5 Gold Digger.

This type 1 FB mating is an example, when inbreeding is carried to far, being inbred to one sire line, Phalaris. Sky Devil has 27 crosses of Ph. stallions in his 5 generation pedigree, a high figure for unsoundness.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:46 am 
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2yo Maiden

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AP has 7 lines of Nasrullah, 6 Native dancer, 2 Northern Dancer, 3 Tom Fool, 2 Petition and 3 Fair Trial.

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https://sites.google.com/site/cosmostho ... pedigrees/


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:10 am 
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Darley line

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Cos Mos: You did not count the mares in your total. Count those mares, & you will find what i did. All the best Louis.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:13 pm 
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2yo Maiden

Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:50 pm
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Louis the reality is that there is only the lines quoted by me. Only 2 Northern Dancer 5x5, there is not 9 Northern Dancer lines.

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https://sites.google.com/site/cosmostho ... pedigrees/


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:48 am 
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Darley line

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Location: Alhambra-Calif.
THE PIZZA MAN (USA) b. G, 2009 {20-a} DP = 4-4-14-0-0 (22) DI = 2.14 CD = 0.55 - 25 Starts, 15 Wins, 2 Places, 2 Shows Career Earnings: $1,748,537

Owner: Midwest Thoroughbreds, Inc.
Breeder: Midwest Thoroughbreds
State Bred: IL
Winnings: 25 Starts: 15 - 2 - 2, $1,748,537

At 3: Won Tex's Zing H. (Arl,8.5fT), Buck's Boy H. (Haw,8.5f)
At 4: Won Robert F. Carey Memorial H. (Haw,9fT), Illinois Owners S. (R); 2nd Black Tie Affair H. (R); 3rd Stars and Stripes S. (G3,AP,12fT)
At 5: Won Stars and Stripes S. (G3,AP,12fT), American St. Leger S. (AP,13.5fT), Black Tie Affair H. (R,AP,8.5fT); 3rd Hollywood Turf Cup S. (G2,Dmr,12fT)
At 6: Won Arlington Million (G1,AP,10fT), Stars and Stripes S. (G3,AP,12fT), Opening Verse S. (CD,8.5fT); 2nd Turf Mile S. (G1,Kee,8fT)

The Pizza Man has a balance of NP & Ph. stallions & mares. Thats why he has stayed sound so long. I am researching his pedigree, & will post my comments later. Be Well Louis.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:48 am 
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Darley line

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Location: Alhambra-Calif.
THE PIZZA MAN b. G, 2009
English Channel---I Can Fan Fan, by Lear Fan

TPM is a type 2 FB, being inbred to 3 Ph. stallions. 4 X 4 Lt. Stevens---5 X 5 Nantallah---5 X 5 Nashua. 1 NP mare 5 X 5 Rough Shod=Questionnaire

TPM has 26 crosses of NP stallions & mares, in his 5 generation pedigree, they are:

6 crosses Fair Play---5 crosses Prince Rose---4 crosses Questionnaire---3 crosses Hyperion---2 crosses Hurry On---2 crosses Teddy---2 crosses Swynford---1 cross Sundridge---1 cross Peter Pan.

We are not seeing these 26 crosses of NP stallions & mares in those type 1 FB, that have prolific breakdowns.
TPM pedigree reads a blend of speed & stamina, turf, & soundness.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:03 pm 
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2yo Maiden

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"TPM has 26 crosses of NP stallions & mares, in his 5 generation pedigree"

No, 15 of the 32 ancestors in his 5 generation pedigree are Phalaris line. But I know you will ignore facts so this is my last word on it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:37 am 
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Darley line

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Location: Alhambra-Calif.
Every breeder has his own formula to breed the BIG Horse. Many are called but few are chosen.
These type 1 FB have created widespread unsoundness. When you have a balance of NP & Ph. stallions & mares in a mating, you will breed tbs that average more lifetime starts,

Those type 2 FB matings are averaging more lifetme starts. Because they have inbreeding to NP stallions or mares. Those NF bred matings with no inbreeding to Ph. individuals, have more starts than those type 2 FB matings.

Our tb of the present, are not the same tb that were here 30-40 years ago. the breed is now 95 % from the Ph. sire line. This is why those type 1 FB, dont average more than 10 lifetime starts.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:43 pm 
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Darley line

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Location: Alhambra-Calif.
CHIDE (USA) dkb/br. F, 2012 {1-x} DP = 5-6-15-2-0 (28) DI = 1.95 CD = 0.50 - 9 Starts, 3 Wins, 2 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $177,600

Owner: Claiborne Farm & Adele B. Dilschneider
Breeder: Claiborne Farm & Adele B. Dilschneider
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 9 Starts: 3 - 2 - 1, $177,600

At 3: 2nd Dogwood S. (G3,CD,7f); 3rd Mother Goose S. (G1,Bel,8½f)

Foaled May 3, 2012.
Half ister to SW Cheery, SPW Shrill.
Won initial start March 18, 2015 at Oaklawn Park (MSW, 6f in 1:11:81)
Euthanized after breaking down in the Falls City Handicap at Churchill Downs, November 26, 2015

CHIDE br. F, 2012
Blame---Yell, by A. P. Indy

Chide was a type 1 FB, being inbred to 3 Ph. stallions. 3 X 5 X 5 ND---5 X 5 Hail to Reason---5 X 5 Buckpasser.

Chide had 26 crosses Ph. stallions & 17 crosses Ph. mares, in her 5 generation pedigree.

Chide has the same inbreeding patterns of those type 1 FB, that suatained career ending injuries. Whats lacking here is, there is no inbreeding to those NP stallions or NP mares. That would create soundness & hybred vigor.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:52 pm 
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Darley line

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Location: Alhambra-Calif.
POCAHONTAS (GB) b. M, 1837 {3-m} DP = 0-0-0-0-0 (0) DI = Inf CD = Inf Career Earnings: Stakes Placed

Owner: King William IV / Lord Stradbroke / John Greatrex & John Forth / Mr. William Theobald / 3rd Marquis of Exeter
Breeder: Royal Stud at Hampton Court

At 2: 2nd Criterion Stakes (behind a DH)


Taproot of Family 3n. 'Blue hen' dam of 15 foals including Stockwell, Rataplan, and King Tom. Her tail female descendancy is still active and producing classic stakes winners via four of her

Secretariat was a better BMS, than a Sire of Sires, because Secretariat had 66 crosses of the great mare Pocahontas. She appears in Secretariat's 5 & 6 generations. Secretariat had 136 crosses of Female Family Inbreeding, thru his stallions & mares.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:55 pm 
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Taproot of Family 3n. 'Blue hen' dam of 15 foals including Stockwell, Rataplan, and King Tom. Her tail female descendancy is still active and producing classic stakes winners via four of her daughters.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:07 pm 
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Breeder's Cup Winner

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:35 pm
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Location: New Jersey
Louis

All of the crosses to Pocahontas are present in the 10th generation and beyond in Secretariat's pedigree, she does not appear in his 5th & 6th generation.

DDT


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:30 am 
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Darley line

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DDT: I went back to my research notes of Secretariat, & i am in error. I added up the generations wrong, thanks for posting, Louis.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:26 pm 
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Location: Alhambra-Calif.
GIANT'S LEXIS (USA) ch. G, 2012 {8-c} DP = 12-5-31-0-0 (48) DI = 2.10 CD = 0.60 - 3 Starts, 1 Wins, 0 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $2,923

Owner: Stud Doña Licha
Breeder: Commonwealth
Winnings: 3 Starts: 1 - 0 - 1, $2,923

Foaled March 19, 2012.
KEESEP13:$60,000

First 2 races in Mexico. Sent to USA in 2015.

Broke down near the wire and vanned off from Race 7, an Allowance Optional Claimer at Los Alamitos on December 11, 2015. RIP.

GIANT'S LEXIS CH. ch. G, 2012
Giants Causeway---Blissful, by Mr. Prospector

Giant's Lexis was a type 1 FB, being inbred to 4 Ph. stallionxs. 4 X 4 ND---4 X 5 Halo---5 X 5 Hail to Reason---5 X 5 Nearctic. 1 Ph. mare 5 X 5 Natalma.

Giant's Lexis had 25 crosses of Ph. stallions, & 14 Ph. mares.
Another Type 1 FB, goes down with a career ending injury. All these type 1 FB have on thing in common, they lack inbreeding to those NP stallions & NP mares, that creates soundness.

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