There is another mare line that is fascinating to me. It's the 1882 Monte Rosa branch of the 8-c (Woodbine) family.
For some inexplicable reason, there are just some dam lines that keep producing daughters who can produce great race horses. Is that that they really are conduits for what the sires have to offer or that the mares themselves are superlative examples of the breed that can pass their quality on to and through their daughters?
Just as we have sires of sires and great broodmare sires, we also have dams of sires (like Selene) and dams of dams, like Pretty Polly and Aloe. I wonder if there is some genetic reason for this?
Dennis Craig's "Thoroughbred Breeding from Cluster Mare
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Dennis Craig's Breeding Racehorses from Cluster Mares
I just borrowed this book through my Interlibrary Loan office (aren't I lucky? - the only copy I found on Amazon was $300). I'm not very far into it yet, but I love researchers who give credit to the dams. Besides 50% of the DNA, there is the whole, nature vs nurture thing, and isn't it the dams who raise the foals after all?
If it were not for this forum, I would not have heard of this book. Thanks!
If it were not for this forum, I would not have heard of this book. Thanks!
Breeding Race Horses From Cluster Mares
I've tried to find this book but have had no luck. Anyone have any suggests? How about the article summary from the Bloodhorse that was mentioned earlier in this tread?
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I got my copy from a used book dealer in Boston who specializes in equines.
Can't remember the seller's name, but I think I found Breeding Racehorses from Cluster Mares on abebooks.com. IIRC, she had several paperback copies available at the time. Mine is signed.
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchR ... &x=65&y=11
Can't remember the seller's name, but I think I found Breeding Racehorses from Cluster Mares on abebooks.com. IIRC, she had several paperback copies available at the time. Mine is signed.
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchR ... &x=65&y=11
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vineyridge wrote:I got my copy from a used book dealer in Boston who specializes in equines.
Can't remember the seller's name <snip>
Was it Robin Bledsoe, by any chance? I know she sells through ABE.
http://www.bledsoebooks.com/shop/bledsoe/index.html
She also has a shop in Cambridge that's well worth a visit, if you're ever in the area.
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The book is hard to come by in this country and when available tends to be pricey. A couple of years ago I tracked down a copy in Scotland through Abe Books.
Here's a signed copy at a sensible price in England. http://www.way-books.co.uk/books/detail/1484.htm
Here's a signed copy at a sensible price in England. http://www.way-books.co.uk/books/detail/1484.htm
"He is pure air and fire and the dull elements of earth and water never appear in him; he is indeed a horse ..." Wm. Shakespeare - Henry V
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Lucy wrote:vineyridge wrote:I got my copy from a used book dealer in Boston who specializes in equines.
Can't remember the seller's name <snip>
Was it Robin Bledsoe, by any chance? I know she sells through ABE.
http://www.bledsoebooks.com/shop/bledsoe/index.html
She also has a shop in Cambridge that's well worth a visit, if you're ever in the area.
Lucy, you're brilliant. That is indeed who sold me my copy. I also bought another book from her at the same time. I think it was my copy of the last Cavalry manual in a 3 vol. set. No, I'm wrong. That came from California.
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UK
Patuxet wrote:The book is hard to come by in this country and when available tends to be pricey. A couple of years ago I tracked down a copy in Scotland through Abe Books.
Here's a signed copy at a sensible price in England. http://www.way-books.co.uk/books/detail/1484.htm
I googled the book and several popped up in the UK. I found one for 5 pounds plus shipping of 5 pounds. Good advice from Patuxet.
Give the Pope and the King of England a horse and in thirty days, they'll be stealing halters.
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If anyone's in the market for a copy of John Sparkman's "Foundation Mares", here's the best deal I've seen for it: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %26otn%3D2
"He is pure air and fire and the dull elements of earth and water never appear in him; he is indeed a horse ..." Wm. Shakespeare - Henry V
Cluster mares
Has Dennis Craig's book been revised in a newer copy? It seems that this book about cluster mares is very hard to find a copy to buy.
For those that want a copy of Breeding Racehorses From Cluster Mares I have just sourced a copy from the UK for 12 pounds. It is a 1968 reprint paperback. There is an original 1964 book for 38 pounds.
Available at: http://www.way-books.co.uk/
cheers Rich
Available at: http://www.way-books.co.uk/
cheers Rich
Dennis Craig's Breeding Books
I have the book "Horse Racing" The breeding of thoroughbreds and a short history of the English turf by Dennis Craig. First Edition 1949 and second edition 1953, Third edition 1963, Fourth Edition 1982.
In this book he covers sire lines and leading stallions, dam lines and leading broadmares...he disputes Bruce Lowe and William Allison theories at the time.
I keep searching for the cluster mare book that he wrote...I hope it is a little more easy read without having to have Robertson's Theory of Male Dominance, Becker's Theory of Female Influence, Galton's Law of Ancestral Contribution, etc. you get the picture! In the end he gives 5 general conclusions of Thoroughbred Breeding. Stating categorically that "the progeny of finely bred stallions will not be very robust or sturdy if thrown by mares whose pedigree contain too much fine blood."
In this book he covers sire lines and leading stallions, dam lines and leading broadmares...he disputes Bruce Lowe and William Allison theories at the time.
I keep searching for the cluster mare book that he wrote...I hope it is a little more easy read without having to have Robertson's Theory of Male Dominance, Becker's Theory of Female Influence, Galton's Law of Ancestral Contribution, etc. you get the picture! In the end he gives 5 general conclusions of Thoroughbred Breeding. Stating categorically that "the progeny of finely bred stallions will not be very robust or sturdy if thrown by mares whose pedigree contain too much fine blood."
mitochondria
Bill From Washington: Do you know of any traits carried in mt-DNA that have genetic functions in the racehorse other than the production of energy?
pretty polly and aloe
Vimeyridge: You asked above: Is there some genetic reason why certain female families keep producing outstanding descendants?
Yes, one genetic reason is the mt-DNA or mitochondrial DNA which is transmitted pretty much unchanged for 100nds of years along the tail female line. It could be that Aloe and Pretty Polly have superlative mt-DNA and their female line is so successful at least in part due to that outstanding genetic gem which keeps being transmitted along the tail female lineage.
Yes, one genetic reason is the mt-DNA or mitochondrial DNA which is transmitted pretty much unchanged for 100nds of years along the tail female line. It could be that Aloe and Pretty Polly have superlative mt-DNA and their female line is so successful at least in part due to that outstanding genetic gem which keeps being transmitted along the tail female lineage.