Pedigree Query

I am looking at possibly purchasing a mare. The grandsire is the same as the grandsire on one of my stallions which would make the resulting foal grand-get of the same stallion. Would breeding this mare to this stallion be inbreeding or linebreeding. I am soooo confused. Could someone please help?

Desert Oasis Sporthorses wrote:I am looking at possibly purchasing a mare. The grandsire is the same as the grandsire on one of my stallions which would make the resulting foal grand-get of the same stallion. Would breeding this mare to this stallion be inbreeding or linebreeding. I am soooo confused. Could someone please help?

From what I understand, a horse with a common ancestor in the 4th-6th generation is considered 'line bred' to that individual.

Inbreeding is duplicating an individual in the first four generations.

In your case it would be inbreeding, because the duplication would be in the fourth generation.

Hope this helps
aethervox

There is an article discussing this in Blood Horse today.

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/scot/archive/2009/03/31/inbreeding-notations-in-thoroughbred-pedigrees.aspx

Is the duplicate horse a good sound horse? If not, why take the chance of duplicating really bad genes.

No, the horse is really good, sound, nice conformation, good temperment. That is what is tough.

You know I personally think the issue of inbreeding is overstated. I've been in the horse business for over 40 years and been around a great many breeds and disciplines. Most equine breeds are very closely bred at some point and to my knowledge none have come to the point of extinction because of genetic dysfunction or fatality.

In the past 40 years, I also personally bred a nationally recognized line of Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. Although retired now, my field line is currently tail-female to one of the top competition lines in NA. That line had considerable inbreeding because my program responded well to it. What I learned from my canine breeding experience, I feel can be applied to equine breeding. Don't casually inbreed. Have a plan based on the character of your stock and never inbreed with the same individual more than once in a particular generation. Simply stated, you could have that individual in every generation once. The significance of that individual the further back is played out in the pedigree's math. Certainly by an individual's appearance more than once, the genetic significance is greater but that is why it is called inbreeding. Always outcross at four generations. The outcross must be significant. Experience has proven with inbreeding that at four to five generations is where the problems occur.

Inbreeding is like a postage stamp. Line breeding is like envelope. Out crossing is line the mail box.

If you have two strong individuals who meet the expectation of your breeding regimen or program, then one inbreeding incident is not going to bust the bank even if it is not exactly what you want. Use good judgement, have a plan, and evaluate the results with a keen and complimentry eye.

I currently have a planned breeding of a stallion and mare who have the same individual sire line. You wouldn't know that either the stallion or the broodmare sire were even in the same line. One is large and quarter-horse looking. The other is small, fleet, and cute. Both were exceptional minor stakes runners up to 10f. The mare was allowance quality. I like the line and tail-female line is productive. It is what I can afford and I think its worth a try.

I guess the key word in the above is "casually." Nothing in the horse business should be done casually.

Thanks so much for all the helpful information. Still undecided tho. So many pros and cons to this. So many "what ifs".

saw an interesting documentary on the issue of inbreeding regarding British showdogs.

They said that the gene pool today is only 10% of what is was 20 years ago...I don't know what the similar comparison would be for TB's, but since you see Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector and Native Dancer in so many pedigrees, it would be interesing to find out.

I believe I saw the same documentary. One of the dogs they talked about was the King Charles Spaniel. This is why I get so nervous. Some defects won't show. Both horses appear healthy and sound, but, here is my favorite one, what if? Some things cannot be seen. I have alot of Mr. Prospector blood at my farm, and others as well. All seem to be healthy and sound, no health defects, bone problems, etc. But ...

Desert Oasis Sporthorses wrote:I am looking at possibly purchasing a mare. The grandsire is the same as the grandsire on one of my stallions which would make the resulting foal grand-get of the same stallion. Would breeding this mare to this stallion be inbreeding or linebreeding. I am soooo confused. Could someone please help?

I don't have any insight on your question, but reminds me of the saying that's heard in the QH & Arab industry on the issue: When it works, they call it line-breeding. When it doesn't work, they call it inbreeding!

freshman wrote:

Desert Oasis Sporthorses wrote:I am looking at possibly purchasing a mare. The grandsire is the same as the grandsire on one of my stallions which would make the resulting foal grand-get of the same stallion. Would breeding this mare to this stallion be inbreeding or linebreeding. I am soooo confused. Could someone please help?

I don't have any insight on your question, but reminds me of the saying that's heard in the QH & Arab industry on the issue: When it works, they call it line-breeding. When it doesn't work, they call it inbreeding!

That is so true. Still undecided, tho. I see so many horses crossed so close. This one would be no different.