What does it mean?

jrgators · Postby **jrgators** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:34 pm

When I look up different horses of mine on here, I find this family code, and I have no idea what that means.

IE...family 36, family 23b, family A-4

Can one of you really smart folks help me out wht this one please?

Thanks,
Theo

Shammy Davis · Postby **Shammy Davis** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:27 pm

Some years ago, well before my time, a man named Bruce Lowe designed a numerical system to define TB mares and their lineage from the most productive to the least productive. The initial numbering system was from 1 to 100 & something. Family #1 was the most prolific racehorse producers and 100 & something the least. All lines go back to an original mare and if you go to the pedigree query and follow your horse's tail female line back you will eventually find the foundation mare who was defined by a family number. According to Lowe family 36 hasn't a chance of winning the derby and 23b is unlikely. The letter b is a variant of the original family. The preceding two families go back to the English Stud Book. Family 4A is an American Family, thus that family goes back to an American bred mare.

I don't think any horse from an American line has won the Derby either.

Forgive me but I read one of your other posts about the fact that you owned two future Derby winners. :wink:

Fortunately for all of us, Lowe's work is no longer held in high esteem so you still may have a chance to win the Derby. But I personally wouldn't bet on it. :lol:

jrgators · Postby **jrgators** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:39 pm

I will win those 2 derbys!

Well....I hope to!

Thanks for explaining that. It was making me nuts!

So does this only affect in theory the classic races? I have 4 mares, and the lines are A-4, 4N, 23B, and 36.

So according to this dead guy, I need to give away my 2 favorite mares! (23B and 36). But, my 4N is the colt I like the best, so I may be on to something in the Derby thing?

I guess! LOL

But again,
Thanks

Shammy Davis · Postby **Shammy Davis** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:43 pm

jrgators posted:

So according to this dead guy, I need to give away my 2 favorite mares! (23B and 36). But, my 4N is the colt I like the best, so I may be on to something in the Derby thing?

There is an old saying that you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Another says, hold fast to your dreams.

Lucy · Postby **Lucy** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:47 pm

More information on family numbers:

http://www.bloodlines.net/TB/Families/FamilyNumbers.htm

http://www.tbheritage.com/HistoricDams/FamilyNumbers.html

Lowe's original purpose for numbering the lines has long since fallen by the wayside, so you can keep your mares. :lol:

Nowadays it is not only used to neatly organize tail-female lines (which is why it has exploded far beyond Lowe's original '40 Royal Mares'), but there are some breeders who set great store in crossing certain families.

vineyridge · Postby **vineyridge** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:03 am

If you're racing in the US, 23-b is a GREAT family to be part of.

jrgators · Postby **jrgators** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:25 am

I'm in Central Texas and 23B wasn't anything too special as a race horse, and I did like her, don't get me wrong she did win 8 races, all cheap races, but she did win 8 of them.

what's special about 23-B? :?:

Theo

Tappiano · Postby **Tappiano** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:12 am

Isn't Affirmed part of #23?

docjocoy · Postby **docjocoy** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:54 am

jrgators wrote:I'm in Central Texas and 23B wasn't anything too special as a race horse, and I did like her, don't get me wrong she did win 8 races, all cheap races, but she did win 8 of them.

what's special about 23-B?

Theo

Affirmed, Fleet Nasrullah, Tim Tam, Winning Colors, Chris Evert, Chief's Crown, to name a few.

jrgators · Postby **jrgators** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:05 am

WOW!

Never saw that coming!

Well, she's the mare of my 2012 Derby winner, so it make perfect sense! :oops:

When I get home from work, I'll tell Run Thomas Run that it's official, he's on track for the roses!

Thanks a bunch!
Theo

diomed · Postby **diomed** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:52 pm

Shammy Davis wrote:I don't think any horse from an American line has won the Derby either.

Swaps is from family A4.
Riley and Azra are from family A1.
Aristides is from family A9.

There are more too....Somebody help me out here. lol

Pan Zareta · Postby **Pan Zareta** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:20 pm

jrgators wrote:what's special about 23-B?

Absolutely nothing. You should find a good home for this mare immediately. Fortunately, I have room for her, and for her '08 Sand Ridge. :lol:

(Actually, 23-b is one of those tail female families in which occasionally a branch that hasn't produced "anything too special" for two or three generations will suddenly spring to life & start producing very special things.)

PZ
(formerly of Austin)

Pan Zareta · Postby **Pan Zareta** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:32 pm

diomed wrote:Swaps is from family A4.
Riley and Azra are from family A1.
Aristides is from family A9.

There are more too....Somebody help me out here. lol

A1 - Regret, Exterminator, Ben Brush, Gato del Sol
A3 - Chant, Pink Star
A4 - Clyde Van Dusen, Iron Liege, Kauai King
A10 - Lord Murphy
A16 - Alan-A-Dale
A13 - Vagrant, Lookout, Lt. Gibson
A15 - Apollo
A18 - Typhoon
A22 - Donerail
A23 - Montrose
A24 - MacBeth
A27 - Behave Yourself
A36 - Judge Himes

Who knows how many more there might have been, but the Jersey Act & racing blackouts effectively thinned the American family herds. :evil:

diomed · Postby **diomed** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:03 am

Pan Zareta wrote:
diomed wrote:Swaps is from family A4.
Riley and Azra are from family A1.
Aristides is from family A9.

There are more too....Somebody help me out here. lol

A1 - Regret, Exterminator, Ben Brush, Gato del Sol
A3 - Chant, Pink Star
A4 - Clyde Van Dusen, Iron Liege, Kauai King
A10 - Lord Murphy
A16 - Alan-A-Dale
A13 - Vagrant, Lookout, Lt. Gibson
A15 - Apollo
A18 - Typhoon
A22 - Donerail
A23 - Montrose
A24 - MacBeth
A27 - Behave Yourself
A36 - Judge Himes

Who knows how many more there might have been, but the Jersey Act & racing blackouts effectively thinned the American family herds.

Thank PZ. I knew there was more than I listed. Just didn't have the time to look it all up.
I find it funny that, despite the Jersey Act, many solid American bloodlines made it into the European gene pool anyways. Nearco and Nasrullah's families are perfect examples. I always laugh about that.

Pan Zareta · Postby **Pan Zareta** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:41 am

diomed wrote:I find it funny that, despite the Jersey Act, many solid American bloodlines made it into the European gene pool anyways. Nearco and Nasrullah's families are perfect examples. I always laugh about that.

Diomed knows this but for the benefit of anyone that doesn't Nearco (4-r) and Nasrullah (*9-c) are both from Lowe-numbered families with British taproots, but via branches 'tainted' with 18th and/or 19th cent. American-breds. The A[#] and a[#] designations represent tail female families whose origins prior to North America are unknown or unproven.