Raise A Native Sire Line

[stancaris]

This Derby indicates the strength of the Raise A Native sire line, a sire line that has generated 18 Derby winners since 1969 when Majestic Prince became the first winner carrying the RAN sire line. In this Derby there were 6 horses that carried the RAN sire line and the first four under the wire, I'll Have Another, Bodemeister, Dullahan, and Went the Day Well all carried the RAN Sire Line. The two others that carried the RAN sire line were Done Talking and Optimizer and both ran out of the money. NOT BAD for RAN who was represented by 6 runners and 4 of them fill out the superfecta.

The RAN sire line has dominated all three legs of the Triple Crown for over 25 years. I do not see it fading anytime in the near future.

[Joltman]

Could have made a bundle boxing that superfecta with six horses.

jm

[Bast]

The RAN sire line has dominated all three legs of the Triple Crown for over 25 years. I do not see it fading anytime in the near future.

Kiss of death.

A similar statement could have been made about Bold Ruler in 1979.

[ElPrado]

"They" also said that no horse by Bold Ruler would win the Derby, much less the Belmont. I think that was said when Secretariat was Horse of the Year at 2. (And I have the issue of BH that says that... and announces that he was HOY). I think we know how "they" had egg on their faces later that year.

[stancaris]

Bast: You said a similar statement could have been made about Bold Ruler in 1979. That's true but Bold Ruler's reign ended in 1979 whereas RAN's reign was just getting started around 1978 when Affirmed won the Triple Crown. RAN's sire line generated 18 Derby winners whereas Bold Ruler's sire line only generated 8 Derby winners. With all the RAN sire line horses at stud today the total foals with this sire line is immense compared to the foal total of Bold Ruler sire line back in the 70s.

I do not think the statement is the kiss of death especially since the RAN sire line has been dominant over the last 15 years in all three legs of the Triple Crown. Every sire line fades in its influence eventually but I really do not think the RAN sire line is going to fade in the near future. Some years ago I had a discussion like this on another forum and some guy stated that the RAN sire line has already begun to fade and that was in 2010 in March. Then Super Saver wins the roses, Lookin at Lucky wins the Preakness and Drosselmeyer wins the Belmont. I said if it is fading it sure didn't look like it that year where the RAN sire line accounted for all 3 legs of the Triple Crown

[Bast]

Bast: You said a similar statement could have been made about Bold Ruler in 1979. That's true but Bold Ruler's reign ended in 1979 whereas RAN's reign was just getting started around 1978 when Affirmed won the Triple Crown. RAN's sire line generated 18 Derby winners whereas Bold Ruler's sire line only generated 8 Derby winners. With all the RAN sire line horses at stud today the total foals with this sire line is immense compared to the foal total of Bold Ruler sire line back in the 70s.

I do not think the statement is the kiss of death especially since the RAN sire line has been dominant over the last 15 years in all three legs of the Triple Crown. Every sire line fades in its influence eventually but I really do not think the RAN sire line is going to fade in the near future. Some years ago I had a discussion like this on another forum and some guy stated that the RAN sire line has already begun to fade and that was in 2010 in March. Then Super Saver wins the roses, Lookin at Lucky wins the Preakness and Drosselmeyer wins the Belmont. I said if it is fading it sure didn't look like it that year where the RAN sire line accounted for all 3 legs of the Triple Crown

Sire lines come and sire lines go.

Raise a Native looks like he'll be around forever, but you never know.

[griff]

How many of the 18 RAN Derby winners carry Bold Ruler on the bottom??

Would probably be more interesting to know how many RAN sire line G-1 winners carry Bold Ruler on the bottom.

griff

[stancaris]

Griff: If you mean broodmare sire line I found the following data:

Since 1969 when Majestic Prince won the roses there have been 18
derby winners carrying the RAN sire line. Of those 18 winners only 5 carried the Bold Ruler broodmare sire line: Those five are Super Saver, Funny Cide, LiL E Tee, Winning Colors, and Gato Del Sol.

[vineyridge]

How many different RAN sons are we talking about? Mr. P probably counts for most of the RAN horses these days.

[stancaris]

My data above does not consider sons of RAN only. It considers the RAN sire line which means a horse like Super Saver or a horse like Funny Cide or horses that even have RAN 3,4, 5, or 6 generations back. For example, Super Saver is a son of Marias Mon, who is a son of Wavering Monarch, who is a son of Majestic Light who is a son of Majestic Prince who is a son of Raise A Native (RAN). Therefore, Super Saver has RAN in tail -male back 5 generations back. Super Saver is a member of the RAN sire line but does not trace to Mr. Prospector in tail-male, who probably is the most frequent member of the RAN sire line found in Derby winners.

[stancaris]

The following horses carry the Raise A Native sire line in the Preakness:

Bodemeister, I'll Have Another, Went the Day Well, and Optimizer

[stancaris]

The powerful Raise A Native line is at work in the Belmont as follows with the following runners carrying his sire line: Atigun, Dullahan, Guyana Star Dweej, I'll Have Another, Mark Valeski, Optimizer, and Street Life. So far the Derby exacta, trifecta and superfecta were RAN sire lilne horses and the Preakness exacta was comprised of RAN sire line horses.

[Bast]

The powerful Raise A Native line is at work in the Belmont as follows with the following runners carrying his sire line: Atigun, Dullahan, Guyana Star Dweej, I'll Have Another, Mark Valeski, Optimizer, and Street Life. So far the Derby exacta, trifecta and superfecta were RAN sire lilne horses and the Preakness exacta was comprised of RAN sire line horses.

Raise a Native
……Mr Prospector
…………Gone West
………………Istan
……………………Atigun
…………Fappiano
………………Unbridled
……………………Unbridleds Song
…………………………Even the Score
………………………………Dullahan
……………………Eddington
…………………………Guyana Star Dweej
…………Forty-Niner
………………Distorted Humor
……………………Flower Alley
…………………………I’ll Have Another
…………Smart Strike
………………English Channel
……………………Optimizer
…………Machiavellian
………………Street Cry
……………………Street Sense
…………………………Street Life

[stancaris]

What point are you trying to make?

[DDT]

Stan

Since 1969, Majestic Prince's failure to win the Belmont, there have been 43 runnings and the Native Dancer line is represented by 20 winners, 2 From Native Dancer without Raise a Native, 3 from Raise a Native without Mr. Prospector and 15 from the Mr. Prospector branch of Raise a Native, perhaps it is time to credit the classic success to the Mr. Prospector line.

DDT