Internationally placed sporthorses, sorted by female line

[cissiny]

Hi all,

I hope this is the correct sub-forum? As I really believe in the importance of the female line, I thought that a thread about horses that has been placed in international competition (eventing, jumping, dressage) sorted by their female TB line would be interesting?

Here's just a few:

Family 1n:
READY TEDDY, Eventing http://www.pedigreequery.com/ready+teddy2

Family 1w:
OVER TO YOU, Eventing, http://www.pedigreequery.com/over+to+you3

Family 2d:
MAGO, Dressage http://www.pedigreequery.com/mago

Family 2g:
TOP FLIGHT, Dressage, http://www.pedigreequery.com/top+flight7
HOPALONG CASSIDY, Showjumping http://www.pedigreequery.com/hopalong+cassidy2
ZAMIRO, DWB, Showjumping, granddam is a TB, 3rd dam is Propitious http://www.pedigreequery.com/propitious

Family 5e:
ARAK, Dressage, http://www.pedigreequery.com/arak4

Family 5h:
HILLY TRIP, Eventing http://www.pedigreequery.com/hilly+trip

Family 6f:
PANDORA EMM, Eventing, not in the database yet, granddam is Miss Carla http://www.pedigreequery.com/miss+carla

Family 8a:
BUTTERFLY FLIP, SWB, Showjumping, dam Baderna http://www.pedigreequery.com/baderna3
AJAX TVÅ, SWB, Dressage, granddam Baroda http://www.pedigreequery.com/baroda3

Family 9e:
BOCELLI, SWB, Dressage, granddam Dancing Lady http://www.pedigreequery.com/dancing+lady2
PAY BACK TP, SWB, Dressage (currently GP, also EC for YR), granddam Dancing Lady.
RAVELL, SWB, Dressage (Junior/YR int championships), dam Dancing Lady
TAJ MAHAL, not sure if he competed internationally in Eventing? http://www.pedigreequery.com/taj+mahal2

Family 14:
PRINCE PANACHE, Eventing http://www.pedigreequery.com/prince+panache

Family 14c:
MISTER POOH, SWB, Eventing, dam Trollop http://www.pedigreequery.com/trollop2
HEARNESBROOK DERBY DAY, TB cross, Eventing, dam Historical Fact http://www.pedigreequery.com/historical+fact

Family 16:
MADJOY, SWB, Dressage, I'll add his dam Keturie, 3rd dam is Orchis http://www.pedigreequery.com/orchis3
(also a bunch of eventers, not sure if they were placed internationally)

Family 23b:
KEYMASTER, Eventing http://www.pedigreequery.com/keymaster
PRESCOTT, Eventing http://www.pedigreequery.com/prescott2

Feel free to add more horses, I have sort of only added those that came to mind right away

Best wishes,
Cissi

(Edited and added a few eventers)

[vineyridge]

You REALLY want them sorted?

5-e Bonne Cause, her daughters and Bonne Nuit.
For sport horses, my favorite line is from the Alexander Mare of 1790. She is a branch of family 2 (n-r). Both Bonne Cause and the Alexander Mare are stallion producing lines where the MtDNA couldn't pass on, but are still very reliable in producing sport horses and sport horse stallions.
3-o to Black Duchess is also very good.

2-n Galan de Sauvagere Eventing
1-b Park Lane Hawk (Park Lane (NZ)) Eventing
10-a Can't Fire Me eventing
1-l Courageous Comet eventing
5-g The Foreman eventing
9-h Woodburn eventing
10 Poilu eventing
23-b Gin & Juice eventing
4-r Harbour Pilot through Shannon eventing
3-o Absolute Liberty eventing
A9 Keen (Willoughby) Olympic dressage
7-d Good Twist Olympic SJ
8-f Gem Twist Olympic SJ I forget his TB registered name, but he's out of Coldly Noble.
14-b Eros Olympic SJ
14 Macchiato (El Orgulloso)

Silver Ray (Silver Raj) is a full TB Danish event horse who was 5th at the Pau 4* in 2010. He's supposed to be Rope Trick x Pilar x Godswalk
Seems to be 5-h.

I have a huge list of TBs and mostly TBs in eventing at the 4* level and a few below. And many of the old line US TB show jumpers. I'll go through and get the families and post.

4-o Plot Blue (SJ) comes from a TB mare line through Santa Fee/Wildbeere. That's a very good tail female line for sport both in the Netherlands and Germany.

There's a pretty good tail female TB sport horse line in Belgium from Petite Helena 9-e

And even if their sport horse influence is only through sons, you cannot discount the Walburga family in Germany. FF5-h

[cissiny]

Hi sweetie

You REALLY want them sorted?

Will try to do that later, have some things I must do today, but I think it could be interesting

Silver Ray (Silver Raj) is a full TB Danish event horse who was 5th at the Pau 4* in 2010. He's supposed to be Rope Trick x Pilar x Godswalk
Seems to be 5-h.

Found him in the Danish Racing database http://195.198.34.45/sokgalop/shestinfo?kommando=visaHerstamning&hestId=516877
The only thing is that his granddam is listed as born 1980 but without pedigree - in this database she's born 1978, would be great if anyone could verify that it's the right one?

I have a huge list of TBs and mostly TBs in eventing at the 4* level and a few below. And many of the old line US TB show jumpers. I'll go through and get the families and post.

Thanks dear Vineyridge! I guess you have Pete Birdsall's books? I have a few about jumping and eventing with statistics (not pedigrees though)

And even if their sport horse influence is only through sons, you cannot discount the Walburga family in Germany. FF5-h

I fully agree, but I think that the list would be too long (maybe a separate thread?) if we would include sporthorse sires, I think it's good to focus only on the sporthorses (only internationally placed, could list tons that competed higher levels nationally) who comes directly from a TB female line.

As for the Swedish ones, I think we'll see both Bocelli and Mister Pooh at the Olympics this year. I know the breeders of both horses very well, living more or less in my own town or just outside it. Dancing Lady was a successful jumper herself BTW.

Best wishes,
Cissi

[vineyridge]

The FEI has Rope Walk x Pilar x Godswalk for Silver Ray's pedigree. I looked Pilar up in Brisnet's European Produce Records, and she is shown with only one foal--Silver Raj by Rope Walk, who is the same age as the FEI's Silver Ray (1994), and who had 10 starts as a race horse.

The EPR has Pilar as a 1988 foal of Old Silver by Godswalk (Ire). She raced for three years and had 29 starts with 4 wins. Old Silver is listed as a 1980 foal by Bold Lad (Ire) out of Silver Talisman (GB 1969) out of Che-Che by Silver Shark.

I have Dr. Birdsall's 1981 Bloodlines of Hunters and Jumpers in North America. It has 4 generation pedigrees.

Of course one huge problem with Sport Horse TBs is that the names are so often changed, and then it's a dam search in the online studbooks to figure out just who the horses are.

BTW Shannon and her dam were unregistered TBs, but I'm absolutely sure of the pedigree. Took me forever to get it, but it's reliable.

I work some with equestrian-database.com out of the Netherlands and find them invaluable for competition results. Then I go to the FEI to see what they have for dam, sire and damsire, and work from there. Then I send my pedigree findings to equestrian-database for them to use.

I've been doing spreadsheets for all the eventing 4*s worldwide since 2010 because I hate the dressage coefficient and want to show how placings are affected by the .5 extra penalty points in dressage. So I've got complete lists of all competitors and I do their breeding to boot.

[cissiny]

Vineyridge,

I am convinced that this will be a very interesting thread, when you and I put our research together we'll for sure get some very interesting results!

I've Pete Birdsall's books with 4 generations aswell, also his big binder with sport horse bloodlines (great but with some errors).

Best wishes,
Cissi

[cissiny]

Now I have added Vineyridge's horses plus a few more Swedish ones, will add links later:

Family A9:
Keen (Willoughby), Olympic dressage

Family 1b:
Park Lane Hawk, Eventing

Family 1l:
Courageous Comet, eventing

Family 1n:
READY TEDDY, Eventing http://www.pedigreequery.com/ready+teddy2

Family 1w:
OVER TO YOU, Eventing, http://www.pedigreequery.com/over+to+you3

Family 2d:
MAGO, Dressage http://www.pedigreequery.com/mago

Family 2g:
TOP FLIGHT, Dressage, http://www.pedigreequery.com/top+flight7
HOPALONG CASSIDY, Showjumping http://www.pedigreequery.com/hopalong+cassidy2
ZAMIRO, DWB, Showjumping, granddam is a TB, 3rd dam is Propitious http://www.pedigreequery.com/propitious

Family 2n:
Galan de Sauvagere, Eventing

Family 3o:
Absolute Liberty, eventing

Family 4o:
Plot Blue, (SJ) comes from a TB mare line through Santa Fee/Wildbeere. That's a very good tail female line for sport both in the Netherlands and Germany.

Family 4r:
Harbour Pilot, through Shannon, eventing

Family 5e:
ARAK, Dressage, http://www.pedigreequery.com/arak4

Family 5g:
The Foreman, eventing

Family 5h:
HILLY TRIP, Eventing http://www.pedigreequery.com/hilly+trip
Silver Ray (Silver Raj) is a full TB Danish event horse who was 5th at the Pau 4* in 2010.

Family 6d:
Blues, Showjumping
Roma H, Showjumping
Alvarito H, Showjumping
Baracuda, Showjumping

Family 6f:
PANDORA EMM, Eventing, not in the database yet, granddam is Miss Carla http://www.pedigreequery.com/miss+carla
Audi's Acke, Showjumping
Adonis Marco, Showjumping

Family 7d:
Good Twist, Olympic SJ

Family 8a:
BUTTERFLY FLIP, SWB, Showjumping, dam Baderna http://www.pedigreequery.com/baderna3
AJAX TVÅ, SWB, Dressage, granddam Baroda http://www.pedigreequery.com/baroda3

Family 8f:
Gem Twist, Olympic SJ I forget his TB registered name, but he's out of Coldly Noble.

Family 9b:
Amorina, Showjumping
Mr Chapman, Eventing

Family 9e:
BOCELLI, SWB, Dressage, granddam Dancing Lady http://www.pedigreequery.com/dancing+lady2
PAY BACK TP, SWB, Dressage (currently GP, also EC for YR), granddam Dancing Lady.
RAVELL, SWB, Dressage (Junior/YR int championships), dam Dancing Lady
TAJ MAHAL, not sure if he competed internationally in Eventing? http://www.pedigreequery.com/taj+mahal2

Family 9h:
Woodburn, eventing

Family 10:
Poilu, eventing

Family 10a:
Can't Fire Me, Eventing

Family 14:
PRINCE PANACHE, Eventing http://www.pedigreequery.com/prince+panache
Macchiato (El Orgulloso)

Family 14b:
Eros, Olympic SJ

Family 14c:
MISTER POOH, SWB, Eventing, dam Trollop http://www.pedigreequery.com/trollop2
HEARNESBROOK DERBY DAY, TB cross, Eventing, dam Historical Fact http://www.pedigreequery.com/historical+fact

Family 16:
MADJOY, SWB, Dressage, I'll add his dam Keturie, 3rd dam is Orchis http://www.pedigreequery.com/orchis3
(also a bunch of eventers, not sure if they were placed internationally)

Family 23:
Cinderella, Showjumping

Family 23b:
KEYMASTER, Eventing http://www.pedigreequery.com/keymaster
PRESCOTT, Eventing http://www.pedigreequery.com/prescott2
Gin & Juice, eventing

I think this will be very interesting, there's still hundreds of horses to add I think? Especially eventers?

Best wishes,
Cissi

[vineyridge]

Vast numbers of event horses. The FEI changes in Eventing, which are ongoing, and, I suspect, oftentimes at the behest of the German FN and the Dutch, are slowly pushing the full TB into oblivion. Without the dressage coefficient, the TB would very likely make a comeback just on stamina. But the FEI also keeps shortening the 4* XC courses. Courses for horses, don't you know?

I'm assuming that when you say "placed Internationally" you mean top level competition, such as 4* eventing. Not just championships and Games. I've included some who medalled at the Pan Am Games, but those are not really top level competition in eventing. The Eventing World Cup is only a CIC3* and the European Championships are only CCI 3*. The Olympics are nominally 4*, but it's generally said that they are a very "soft" 4*.

Add
1-c Poggio II (Chesterstimetofly) (Olympics and WEG)
23-a Moonfleet (Empty Wagon) out of Blue Suede Shoes. Won Badminton twice. Owned by Sue Magnier.
6-c The great mare Winter Rose and her progeny and her daughter's progeny. Dam of International show jumpers Riviera Wonder and Miss Budweiser (Circus Rose). Oldies but a very, very good tail female family which continued to produce sport horses for at least two more generations.
1-n Twizzel (WEST), 4* event horse out of Lady Bedford out of Ducky Daddle. 5th at the Rolex Kentucky 4* in 2012; 5th at Luhmuhlen in 2009 in the 4*.
7 Otis Barbotiere (SF) Eventing 3rd at Rolex Kentucky 4* 2012. Granddam is Pachouga (FR)

The #2 horse at Rolex this year was Arthur who is out of a TB mare, barn name Katy, but no one seems to know anything more about her. Even the horse's breeder has forgotten her breeding, if he ever knew it. I've checked.

[pedigreeann]

The one and only Charisma belonged to the famous Eulogy family of New Zealand. Only his damsire was not pure Thoroughbred. Eulogy foaled a Derby winner and an Oaks winner in Kiwiland and her daughters and granddaughters (and so on!) have continued the good work for the last 90 years or so. Eulogy (1911, by Cicero-Keliba, by Upas) belonged to family 22-b.