Aldebaran as BM sire
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Barcaldine
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He certainly has a license to be a decent broodmare sire, even though his record as a stallion was very disappointing. Like many good racehorses, most notably Secretariat, he bred an inordinately high number of quality mares--including the deep families of Darby Dan Farm, where he stood--and those daughters would be good broodmare candidates. In that he is a commercial disaster you wouldnt expect to pay too much for one of these diamonds in the rough.
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Barcaldine
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Here's her pedigree. http://www.pedigreequery.com/extra+quick5
Notice the 2 x 4 inbreeding to Mr. Prospector, and the more distant inbreeding to Northern Dancer. As importantly, the female line traces to the great *ROUGH SHOD II.
She appears to be a nice race mare, though not of stakes quality, but these types often outproduce their own form when bred properly, She didnt sell as a yearling so I dont have a feel for her conformation but presume she is of average size given her parentage.
I dont know your intentions, but if it is to sell her foals, there is one important omission in her family. That is her lack of sisters. Other than a 4yo Mineshaft filly who is running in cheap claimers, there are no other fillies under the first dam. From a cataloguing standpoint, this means that the potential for future improvement is minimal.
Without knowing her conformation, temperament and other traints I wouldnt presume to offer a specific stallion as a mate. However, I find it more logical to determine the parameters I want the stallion to fall into (based on all these factors) then to develop a short list of potential mates.
On first blush, I would avoid more Mr. Prospector, perhaps settling on a good Seattle Slew/A.P. Indy horse, preferably one which is inbred to Bold Ruler through his dam. (The new stallion CONCORD POINT comes to mind here). If you can return the blood of ROUGH SHOD to her (perhaps through THONG or SPECIAL), so much the better.
Good luck. You have a nice mare.
Notice the 2 x 4 inbreeding to Mr. Prospector, and the more distant inbreeding to Northern Dancer. As importantly, the female line traces to the great *ROUGH SHOD II.
She appears to be a nice race mare, though not of stakes quality, but these types often outproduce their own form when bred properly, She didnt sell as a yearling so I dont have a feel for her conformation but presume she is of average size given her parentage.
I dont know your intentions, but if it is to sell her foals, there is one important omission in her family. That is her lack of sisters. Other than a 4yo Mineshaft filly who is running in cheap claimers, there are no other fillies under the first dam. From a cataloguing standpoint, this means that the potential for future improvement is minimal.
Without knowing her conformation, temperament and other traints I wouldnt presume to offer a specific stallion as a mate. However, I find it more logical to determine the parameters I want the stallion to fall into (based on all these factors) then to develop a short list of potential mates.
On first blush, I would avoid more Mr. Prospector, perhaps settling on a good Seattle Slew/A.P. Indy horse, preferably one which is inbred to Bold Ruler through his dam. (The new stallion CONCORD POINT comes to mind here). If you can return the blood of ROUGH SHOD to her (perhaps through THONG or SPECIAL), so much the better.
Good luck. You have a nice mare.
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louis finochio
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Louis
Extra Quick is a type 1 Fashion Bred according to your rules and your method of counting being inbred 2X4 to Mr. Prospector, 3X5 Raise a Native, 3X5 Gold Digger, 4X5 to Northern Dancer and 5X5 to Nashua. Now you are saying that it is possible for a horse to be classified a Fashion Bred and still have a balanced pedigree?
DDT
Extra Quick is a type 1 Fashion Bred according to your rules and your method of counting being inbred 2X4 to Mr. Prospector, 3X5 Raise a Native, 3X5 Gold Digger, 4X5 to Northern Dancer and 5X5 to Nashua. Now you are saying that it is possible for a horse to be classified a Fashion Bred and still have a balanced pedigree?
DDT
If Extra Quick has good feet and great conformation, if I was ever going to send a mare to Big Brown, this would be her. Big Brown displayed his turf talent at the Spa first time out and before the Dutrow influence so it is hard to say if he was as good as his racing record demonstrated or not, but he could turn out to be a successful sire. At any rate, I think he would do well with this mare.
DDT
DDT
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louis finochio
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DDT: When you find a FB, that has a balance of those NP sire lines, in both mares & stallions, they will average more lifetime starts, than those FB without the balance of those NP sire lines.
Thats why a pedigree researcher has to take a curve of those NP & Ph. sire lines, to see which way the family tree will fall.
Thats why a pedigree researcher has to take a curve of those NP & Ph. sire lines, to see which way the family tree will fall.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
Louis
You miss my point, you said that because Extra Quick has a balance of NP and P sires and dams, and prolific numbers of Chefs in her background that will add quality to her progeny. If she is a type 1 FB, with weak under pinnings and fragile bones, how could she be a good producer by averaging more starts in her racing career? As usual, you want it both ways, or should I say you want it the Louis way?
DDT
You miss my point, you said that because Extra Quick has a balance of NP and P sires and dams, and prolific numbers of Chefs in her background that will add quality to her progeny. If she is a type 1 FB, with weak under pinnings and fragile bones, how could she be a good producer by averaging more starts in her racing career? As usual, you want it both ways, or should I say you want it the Louis way?
DDT
You're just practicing gobble de gook. That was directed at Louis, not you, by the way.I certainly wouldn't shy away from a mare by Aldebaran as a broodmare prospect, especially if I liked the dam's family. He strikes me as being similar to Coronado's Quest in that both horses are very well bred, from deep female families, and yet weren't particularly successful as sires. However as a broodmare sire, CQ has quickly made a name for himself; mares he sired have produced such horses as Kodiak Kowboy, Soldat, Mani Bhavan, Mendip, Grand Adventure, Boys at Tosconova, and many more. Aldebaran seems to me to be a horse with the same kind of potential.
What about EQ with TIZDAJAVU?????
Extra Quick is inbred to both Mr. Prospector 3 x 4 and Northern Dancer 5 x 4. Tizdejavu is free of Mr. Prospector, which would be good for Extra Quick. As mentioned this mating is an outcross within 4-generations (no duplications) , but there are 6-lines of Northern Dancer 6 x 6 x 5 x 6 x 5 further out. A few observations --- Sham and Tom Rolfe should work well together, as both are tail-female to the mare Pocahontas --- they appear 5 x 5. Sham's dam Sequoia and Tome Rolfe's 2nd dam How are full-sisters. Also this mating pairs-up the half-siblings First Landing and Hill Prince, both out of the famous mare Hildene --- they appear 5 x 7. Other common duplication include Princequillo, Native Dancer, and Traffic Judge. The TrueNicks rating is a B+ with 2-Grade 1 winners resulting from the Tiznow / Mr. Prospector cross --- Bullsbay (G1) and Gemologist (G1) both very serious runners!
Extra Quick is inbred to both Mr. Prospector 3 x 4 and Northern Dancer 5 x 4. Tizdejavu is free of Mr. Prospector, which would be good for Extra Quick. As mentioned this mating is an outcross within 4-generations (no duplications) , but there are 6-lines of Northern Dancer 6 x 6 x 5 x 6 x 5 further out. A few observations --- Sham and Tom Rolfe should work well together, as both are tail-female to the mare Pocahontas --- they appear 5 x 5. Sham's dam Sequoia and Tome Rolfe's 2nd dam How are full-sisters. Also this mating pairs-up the half-siblings First Landing and Hill Prince, both out of the famous mare Hildene --- they appear 5 x 7. Other common duplication include Princequillo, Native Dancer, and Traffic Judge. The TrueNicks rating is a B+ with 2-Grade 1 winners resulting from the Tiznow / Mr. Prospector cross --- Bullsbay (G1) and Gemologist (G1) both very serious runners!
LB wrote:I certainly wouldn't shy away from a mare by Aldebaran as a broodmare prospect, especially if I liked the dam's family. He strikes me as being similar to Coronado's Quest in that both horses are very well bred, from deep female families, and yet weren't particularly successful as sires. However as a broodmare sire, CQ has quickly made a name for himself; mares he sired have produced such horses as Kodiak Kowboy, Soldat, Mani Bhavan, Mendip, Grand Adventure, Boys at Tosconova, and many more. Aldebaran seems to me to be a horse with the same kind of potential.
Aldebaran hasn't bee out there long enough to run up any decent numbers as a BM sire, is index is 0.69. C Quest is showing great promise with an index of 1.55 already.
jm
Run the race - the one that's really worth winning.