Mr. Prospector and Northern Dancer

[Keith]

Mr. Prospector and Northern Dancer dominate the classics far more than Secretariat or Buckpasser. As far as elite mares Almahmoud , Somethingroyal, Rough Shod II, and La Troienne are in a lot of pedigrees.

[Shawklit Won]

Bold Ruler had a pretty good run in the 1960's and 1970's. 8 time leading sire mostly during the 1960's, and in the 1970's sired one Derby winner (Secretariat), was grandsire of 5 Derby winners (Dust Commander, Cannonade, Foolish Pleasure, Bold Forbes, and Spectacular Bid), and was great grandsire of Seattle Slew. Bold Ruler also was the grandsire of the great Ruffian.

Trouble is, Bold Ruler did not live very long and sired less than 350 horses. Can you imagine how dominant Bold Ruler could have been if he sired more than 1000 horses like some of today's stallions?

[Pan Zareta]

As far as elite mares Almahmoud , Somethingroyal, Rough Shod II, and La Troienne are in a lot of pedigrees.

As 2d dam of Northern Dancer and Halo, and 4th dam of Danehill, Almahmoud is a more frequent fixture in pedigree than the other three named mares. Her influence is roughly commensurate with that of Mumtaz Mahal, 2d dam of Nasrullah and Mahmoud, 3d dam of Royal Charger.

The most efficient way for a mare to influence the breed is by producing multiple sons whose 'tail male' descendancies persist or at least thrive for a few generation. Some notable first dams in that regard are Plucky Liege (dam of Bull Dog and Sir Gallahad III as well as Bois Roussel and Admiral Drake), Selene (dam of Pharamond, Sickle and Hyperion), Pocahontas (dam of Stockwell, King Tom, and Rataplan), Scapa Flow (dam of Pharos and Fairway) and Betty Leedes (dam of the Childers, Flying and Bartlet's).

[Linda_d]

Mr. Prospector and Northern Dancer dominate the classics far more than Secretariat or Buckpasser. As far as elite mares Almahmoud , Somethingroyal, Rough Shod II, and La Troienne are in a lot of pedigrees.

Agreed. One could argue that from the quality of the mares both Secretariat and Buckpasser got from the very beginning of their careers, they both could have done better. In regards to Buckpasser in particular, it seems to me that almost all of his great producing daughters/granddaughter/greatgranddaughters trace back to those great Phipps mares he had access to, which has to raise the question of whether he actually improved his offspring that much. Easy Goer,a quarter of a century later, also made his meteoric reputation as a broodmare sire with mares from these same lines.

Mr Prospector started out in Florida and Northern Dancer in Canada and had to "earn" their way to significantly better mares via their great early progeny.

[Pan Zareta]

In regards to Buckpasser in particular, it seems to me that almost all of his great producing daughters/granddaughter/greatgranddaughters trace back to those great Phipps mares he had access to, which has to raise the question of whether he actually improved his offspring that much.

Bold Ruler had much the same advantages (Phipps mares) and disadvantages (relatively short career in the stud v. the longer-lived Mr. P. and NorD.) as Buckpasser. Some sires are just a better 'fit' with their mares for the racing environment of their time and place than others.