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 Post subject: Well Bred Mare
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:29 am 
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Maiden Special Weight

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 200
Location: Ohio
What a well bred mare should have? 1. No exceptions: Must be a daughter of a sire who was a successful "MATERNAL GRANDSIRE"! 2. Superior Tail Female Line. 3. Her 1st and 2nd "MATERNAL GRANDSIRES" must have been equally successful too.

Can anyone give me some examples using these qualifications?


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 Post subject: Re: Well Bred Mare
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:53 am 
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Darley line

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:21 am
Posts: 9181
Location: Alhambra-Calif.
Agree with your post. I like a mare that has bred winners with different stallions, as those mares carry the nicking factor.

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Those without sin cast the first stone.
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 Post subject: Re: Well Bred Mare
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:09 am 
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Grade II Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:33 pm
Posts: 1421
A well bred mare's value goes way up in my mind when she shows it on the racetrack. Lot's of well bred ones out there, but you can't pass on what you don't have.

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Run the race - the one that's really worth winning.


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 Post subject: Re: Well Bred Mare
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:04 am 
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Maiden Special Weight

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 200
Location: Ohio
I read somewhere that a list of great MATERNAL GRANDSIRES are listed, but I have never seen such a list. I was also told that it takes 15 yrs. before you would know that a sire was a good MATERNAL GRANDSIRE due to the number of mares and offspring needed to determine if they were successful. Any info on this list or thoughts would be appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Well Bred Mare
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:44 am 
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Allowance Winner

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:29 am
Posts: 326
I've never seen such a list, but I've attempted to generate my own.

This is hard to analyze, but below is my "Top 50" list of maternal grand sires, based on data from Jan-1990 to Oct-2014.

These Stallions produced mares with multiple winners whose offspring accounted for multiple wins.
For example, Alydar had 221 mares who produced 807 winners with 2,917 wins. One example is Chipeta Springs, who had 8 winners, of which 5 had more than 2 victories each.
(One of them was Gio Ponti, one of my personal favs.)

If I test for Dam Sires with more than two winners with at least two wins each, I get a long list of over 7,000 Stallions. 67 had 100 or more unique Mares meeting the test conditions.
Deputy Minister leads the list with 249 Mares meeting the criteria, of 440 total Mares.

Going back to my Alydar example, he had 221 Mares of which 127 met the dual multi- criteria I used.
Again my data is limited to 1990 to late-2014, so Sires with progeny before 1990 are 'short-changed' in my analysis.


My list:
Deputy Minister 249
Dixieland Band 229
Mr. Prospector 214
Valid Appeal 209
Seattle Slew 184
Clever Trick 183
Halo 179
Storm Cat 175
Vice Regent 175
Relaunch 173
Crafty Prospector 170
Secretariat 166
Conquistador Cielo 160
Affirmed 157
Mr. Leader 154
Wild Again 152
Kris S 151
Damascus 144
Cox's Ridge 143
Pleasant Colony 143
Miswaki 141
Mt. Livermore 141
Woodman 138
Broad Brush 133
Storm Bird 133
Meadowlake 131
Private Account 131
Stop The Music 131
Carson City 128
Green Dancer 128
Phone Trick 128
Alydar 127
Raise A Native 127
Bold Ruckus 125
Nijinsky 2nd 125
Cure The Blues 124
Danzig 124
Majestic Light 124
Devil's Bag 123
Naskra 123
Silver Deputy 123
In Reality 122
Key To The Mint 121
*Grey Dawn 2nd 120
Capote 119
Silent Screen 119
Rahy 118
Apalachee 117
Our Native 114
Dynaformer 113

Incidentally, my data covers nearly 1.5 million races run in North America, which I’ve compiled over many, many years. I do the data collection and manipulation in Excel and then Access, and then run high-level queries in SQL Server to summarize the data before exporting back to Excel for fine-tuning the analysis with the test criteria.


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 Post subject: Re: Well Bred Mare
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:09 pm 
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Maiden Special Weight

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 200
Location: Ohio
I really appreciate the information that you have provided me for maternal grandsires. You have done a lot of work. Great Information that I will sort out for my breeding purposes. Again Thanks!!
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Well Bred Mare
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:04 pm 
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Leading Sire
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Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:45 pm
Posts: 3572
Location: Spokane, WA
Very interesting to see Valid Appeal so high on the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Well Bred Mare
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:17 pm 
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Allowance Winner

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:29 am
Posts: 326
Here's the Top 50 list (with ties) confined to Dam Sires with G1 or 2 Stakes Winners:
rank G1 & 2 DamSire
1 66 Mr. Prospector
2 64 Nijinsky 2nd
3 60 Seattle Slew
4 59 Storm Cat
5 59 Seeking The Gold
6 57 A.P. Indy
7 51 Alydar
8 50 Deputy Minister
9 49 Kris S
10 43 Dixieland Band
11 43 Key To The Mint
12 42 Storm Bird
13 39 Secretariat
14 35 Private Account
15 34 Northfields
16 31 Nureyev
17 30 Valid Appeal
18 29 Rahy
19 29 Sadler's Wells
20 28 Carson City
21 26 Danzig
22 25 Lyphard
23 25 Northern Dancer
24 25 Capote
25 25 Gone West
26 24 Conquistador Cielo
27 24 Woodman
28 23 Relaunch
29 23 Caro (IRE)
30 23 Blushing Groom (FR)
31 23 Green Dancer
32 23 Unbridled
33 23 In Reality
34 22 Wolf Power (SAF)
35 21 Pleasant Colony
36 21 Damascus
37 21 Lord At War (ARG)
38 21 Broad Brush
39 20 Stop The Music
40 19 Quiet American
41 19 Vice Regent
42 19 Caerleon
43 19 Wild Again
44 19 Buckpasser
45 18 Mari's Book
46 18 Miswaki
47 18 Round Table
48 18 Affirmed
49 18 Diplomat Way
50 18 Clever Trick
51 18 Dehere
52 18 Theatrical (IRE)
53 18 Al Hattab


Here's a chart showing Danzig's winners (by year) as a Dam Sire, regardless of Class:
http://s236.photobucket.com/user/Starry ... g.html?o=0


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