In response to the thread on Byerly Turk line stallions, I wanted to bring this stallion to light. I stumbled on this guy totalling by accident. His name is Indian Runner, and from what I understand he was a pretty consistant runner in New Mexico (He may even be a regional SW. I saw several of his win photos). His distaff pedigree is so obscure the database doesn't even list his dam's bloodline! This guy is standing in a private trainer's backyard about 3 miles from my ranch. He's a son of Sportful (Crozier) and traces directly to Tourbillon in the first five. I saw him, but didn't pay much attention to him. He's a nice looking dark bay, from what I recall. I believe the trainer is using him to produce homebreds.
If anyone would like more info on him (jellac?) let me know and I'll go take a closer look.
Laurie
Just Located a Virtually Unknown Tourbillon Line Stallion
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster, Lucy
Just Located a Virtually Unknown Tourbillon Line Stallion
So many pedigrees...so little time. (C)
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Pan Zareta
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Pan, thanks for filling in the blanks on this one. Not a fabulous race record or female family (at least at first glance) but I agree that his linebreeding is interesting.
I wonder if Olympia was a strong enough candidate for close up linebreeding, and if there are any instances of Olympia "nicking" with Tourbillon line sires.
Laurie
I wonder if Olympia was a strong enough candidate for close up linebreeding, and if there are any instances of Olympia "nicking" with Tourbillon line sires.
Laurie
So many pedigrees...so little time. (C)
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Pan Zareta
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ZiaLand wrote:I wonder if Olympia was a strong enough candidate for close up linebreeding, and if there are any instances of Olympia "nicking" with Tourbillon line sires.
Laurie
Well, i/b to Olympia apparently worked well under Crozier, at least. The 1985 Eclipse Award Sprinter & 2003 HoF inductee Precisionist (1981, Crozier - Excellently by Forli) 46-20-10-4 $3,485,398 is 3x4 to Olympia. See also Beat Inflation (1973, Crozier - Teacher's Art by Quibu) who's 3x3 to Olympia. (Unfortunately, Precisionist was virtually sterile - he only had a handful of foals.)
I can't say whether it worked across the board w/ the Tourbillons, but there are a sufficient number (3 pages) of inbreds to Olympia showing up in the db here that I'd say an ample number of breeders deemed him a strong enough candidate for close up (or multiple x's further back) inbreeding. Obviously he's a great source of speed.
Very COOL Zialand....I just love it when one of these Toubillion sireline stallions shows up out of no-where!
Sounds very interesting in terms of the Olympia inbreeding....not sure but wasn't Olympia the ultra-fast thoroughbred associated with Fred Hooper's early success??? Or was it a case of one of his first successful thoroughbreds was a super-fast son of Olympia or inbred to Olympia???? Anyway I've always regarded Olympia as a source of speed in the pedigree....but speed with a lot of class.
Do you think you could get a photo for us from your neighbor?
Sounds very interesting in terms of the Olympia inbreeding....not sure but wasn't Olympia the ultra-fast thoroughbred associated with Fred Hooper's early success??? Or was it a case of one of his first successful thoroughbreds was a super-fast son of Olympia or inbred to Olympia???? Anyway I've always regarded Olympia as a source of speed in the pedigree....but speed with a lot of class.
Do you think you could get a photo for us from your neighbor?
Hi Folks,
An interesting find. Precisionist looked like the best bet to carry on the Crozier/Tourbillion line. Nature used her perogative to intefere.
I've been doing some extensive analysis on Matty G and he seems resistant to linebreeding to Olympia. He works best with outcrosses through 4 gens, you can inbreed to Pia Star, but doing so with Olympia has had no positive results.
Different stallions will accomodate in/line breeding to an ancestor to a lesser or greater extent.
Regards,
Pete
An interesting find. Precisionist looked like the best bet to carry on the Crozier/Tourbillion line. Nature used her perogative to intefere.
I've been doing some extensive analysis on Matty G and he seems resistant to linebreeding to Olympia. He works best with outcrosses through 4 gens, you can inbreed to Pia Star, but doing so with Olympia has had no positive results.
Different stallions will accomodate in/line breeding to an ancestor to a lesser or greater extent.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
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Pan Zareta
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Pete wrote:Hi Folks,
An interesting find. Precisionist looked like the best bet to carry on the Crozier/Tourbillion line. Nature used her perogative to intefere.
Precisionist did have one son Presailist ('85 - Sailajet by Tri Jet, 9-1-0-1, $18.5K). I don't recall ever having seen an advert on Presailist(FL?), but he's had some reg. TB progeny (7 mares bred per last yrs report) incl at least one to race & win.
I've been doing some extensive analysis on Matty G and he seems resistant to linebreeding to Olympia. He works best with outcrosses through 4 gens, you can inbreed to Pia Star, but doing so with Olympia has had no positive results.Pete
Sounds like Matty G is more interested in returns of Mahmoud or Blenheim than Olympia.
PZ
Hi Pan,
Sadly, Presailist's numbers aren't likely to continue the line. The database lists Time To Sail (c. 1997) who has $103k in earnings as his only foal.
Matty G accumulates influences in what might appear to be a random manner but there will be a logic to it if one wishes to investigate (truly daunting manually and only practical with a computer - but you need the data too). He does show an affinity for Mahmoud and Blenheim.
Definitely a lesson in the value of environment in the success of Crozier, Tri Jet and other Hooper sires. It's impossible to say how much better less valued sires would have fared had their foals been given all the advantages that solid operations like Hooper and others gave their sires.
Regards,
Pete
Sadly, Presailist's numbers aren't likely to continue the line. The database lists Time To Sail (c. 1997) who has $103k in earnings as his only foal.
Matty G accumulates influences in what might appear to be a random manner but there will be a logic to it if one wishes to investigate (truly daunting manually and only practical with a computer - but you need the data too). He does show an affinity for Mahmoud and Blenheim.
Definitely a lesson in the value of environment in the success of Crozier, Tri Jet and other Hooper sires. It's impossible to say how much better less valued sires would have fared had their foals been given all the advantages that solid operations like Hooper and others gave their sires.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
Indian Runner
Hello Everyone,
I'm new to this forum, but have to disagree with Lauries comments re Indian Runners female line.
His 7th dam is Alcibiades, who in turn traces to Bridget, full sister to Melton.
Alcibiades is the dam of Menow and 4th dam of Sir Ivor.
Indian Runner has duplications of Olympia who is 4x5 to Santa Brigida ex Bridget (again).
Indian Runners 4th dam is by Melton (Bridgets full brother)
He might go OK with mares by Sir Ivor as Indian Runners 4th dam is a daughter of Turn To and Sir Ivor is a grandson of Turn To. Both Sir Ivor and Indian Runner share dam lines to Alcibiades.
Caroline
I'm new to this forum, but have to disagree with Lauries comments re Indian Runners female line.
His 7th dam is Alcibiades, who in turn traces to Bridget, full sister to Melton.
Alcibiades is the dam of Menow and 4th dam of Sir Ivor.
Indian Runner has duplications of Olympia who is 4x5 to Santa Brigida ex Bridget (again).
Indian Runners 4th dam is by Melton (Bridgets full brother)
He might go OK with mares by Sir Ivor as Indian Runners 4th dam is a daughter of Turn To and Sir Ivor is a grandson of Turn To. Both Sir Ivor and Indian Runner share dam lines to Alcibiades.
Caroline
AAANNND....Here's another one.....Byerly Turk stallion that is......ta dah! This one is not that far from being in my own back yard, so to speak.
FINAL ROW 1997 by Ahonoora out of the Night Shift(Northern Dancer) mare, The Jotter...Standing in Burleson, Texas for $750 and currently For Sale on Equinenow.com ($10,0000). Stands 15.0HH per ad. Can anyone tell me more about this stallion's race record and way of running, speed - if any? - preferred surface and/or distance?
http://www.equinenow.com/browse-ad-5143
Reportedly a GSP winner and winner of races from 5 furlongs to > 1 mile on the turf.
DP = 2-16-2-0-0 (20) DI = 19.00 CD = 1.00 - GSV = 64.34
Conduit Mare Profile = 3-2-5-10-6 Speed = 5 Stamina = 16 Index = 0.48 Triads = 10-17-21
FINAL ROW 1997 by Ahonoora out of the Night Shift(Northern Dancer) mare, The Jotter...Standing in Burleson, Texas for $750 and currently For Sale on Equinenow.com ($10,0000). Stands 15.0HH per ad. Can anyone tell me more about this stallion's race record and way of running, speed - if any? - preferred surface and/or distance?
http://www.equinenow.com/browse-ad-5143
Reportedly a GSP winner and winner of races from 5 furlongs to > 1 mile on the turf.
DP = 2-16-2-0-0 (20) DI = 19.00 CD = 1.00 - GSV = 64.34
Conduit Mare Profile = 3-2-5-10-6 Speed = 5 Stamina = 16 Index = 0.48 Triads = 10-17-21
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Stedfast Farm
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Blacktype Total Blacktype: 0 wins, 2 seconds, 2 thirds
Fin Pos Year Country Track Race Name Currency in country of origin
(Purse--Value Of Race--Earnings)
2 2001 USA KEE Shakertown S. T (75,000--85,200--17,040)
2 2000 USA KEE Seattle Slew S. T (75,000--74,375--14,575)
3 2001 USA AP Taylor's Special S. T (50,000--54,750--6,022)
3 2000 USA SA La Puente S. [R] T (75,000--85,275--9,783)
MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION
1999 GB Sent from Great Britain to United States
I saw both races at Keenland. I was wondering what happened to him. By the way he is by the Ahonoora son Indian Ridge.
His race record is 29 starts 6 wins 9 seconds and 4 thirds
winning $220,499
Country by Country Summary Race Records
In England
Year Age Starts 1st 2nd 3rd Pounds Earnings (USA $)
1999 2 7 1 4 0 10,577 17,063
In North America / USA
Year Age Starts 1st 2nd 3rd Earnings (USA $)
2000 3 10 4 2 2 126,992
2001 4 10 1 3 2 75,484
2002 5 2 0 0 0 960
Totals 3 22 5 5 4 203,436
Fin Pos Year Country Track Race Name Currency in country of origin
(Purse--Value Of Race--Earnings)
2 2001 USA KEE Shakertown S. T (75,000--85,200--17,040)
2 2000 USA KEE Seattle Slew S. T (75,000--74,375--14,575)
3 2001 USA AP Taylor's Special S. T (50,000--54,750--6,022)
3 2000 USA SA La Puente S. [R] T (75,000--85,275--9,783)
MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION
1999 GB Sent from Great Britain to United States
I saw both races at Keenland. I was wondering what happened to him. By the way he is by the Ahonoora son Indian Ridge.
His race record is 29 starts 6 wins 9 seconds and 4 thirds
winning $220,499
Country by Country Summary Race Records
In England
Year Age Starts 1st 2nd 3rd Pounds Earnings (USA $)
1999 2 7 1 4 0 10,577 17,063
In North America / USA
Year Age Starts 1st 2nd 3rd Earnings (USA $)
2000 3 10 4 2 2 126,992
2001 4 10 1 3 2 75,484
2002 5 2 0 0 0 960
Totals 3 22 5 5 4 203,436
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nferro9925
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