Comments about broodmare potential

[cedarbrook]

I am looking at a mare Trillion Cazillion as a broodmare to cross with my stallion Just a Devil.
First, what could I expect from her as a broodmare, and second, do you think she is a good cross for my stallion?
Thanks,
Shannon

[madelyn]

From just the data, Trillion Cazillion appears to come from a family lacking either soundness or talent... if it is soundness, that be less of a concern than talent, since your stallion made it to the starting gate 24 times.. but what are you expecting of the resulting foal?

[kimberley mine]

I'm guessing, given her pedigree, that this is more of a soundness issue than a talent issue. Unbridled has a justifiable reputation for throwing soundness problems--2 out of every 5 of his foals never even made it to the track.

Adding Storm Cat to Unbridled, while responsible for the explosive runners Santa Catarina and Eishin Bridle, is like adding gasoline to the fire. If Unbridled Storm had a rather unsatisfactory front end to begin with and was bred to a stallion who passed along bad knees, well, good luck getting a runner.

Can you get a series of pictures of her--front, back, both sides? That should tell you what you want to know.

[Pete]

Hi,

Cold Hearted was a superior producer, a daughter of 4th dam, Turn To North. Other than her there's not a lot of definable talent despite some top sires being bred into the family (notably Unbridled).

Kimberly makes some good points about Unbridled and Storm Cat and my question would be why there wasn't a lot of talent in the foals that did race. Mainly ordinary and the few SWs that there are are not of real note.

Unbridled's Storm has a full sister, Unlawful, who hasn't had a runner (through 2004) from 3 Liv Tyler foals. Perhaps they're too young.

At least Unbridled's Storm has gotten some good sales prices and she ran (not a winner). I wouldn't consider this mare if I were breeding to race and would be inclined to look elsewhere unless I had a salient strategy of the sires I would breed her to in an attempt to leverage her pedigree.

Good luck,

Pete

[Lucy]

Unbridled's Storm has a full sister, Unlawful, who hasn't had a runner (through 2004) from 3 Liv Tyler foals. Perhaps they're too young.

I didn't know Liv Tyler was at stud! What must her father think?
(Insert your own 'dude looks like a lady' joke here).

(Pete, of course I know you meant Lil Tyler - but that's got to be one of the coolest typos I've ever seen! )

[Pete]

Da yokes on you Rucie!

I meant LIV Tyler.

yeah - that's the ticket...

Actually I'd probably prefer seeing Liv to Lil.

Thanks for the pickup...I shulda taken credit fah da funny.

Pete

[cedarbrook]

Thank you all for the info.
I am looking to breed something to race. I have not seen Trillion Cazillion yet. I was planning to go take a look at her somethime this week. I will definately look at her knees. Is there anything else that I should be looking for given her pedigree? I know she has a broken sesamoid(?), not sure of the spelling, in a hind leg. They told me that she kicked a post. I did a little research on her sales record and it looks to me that she may have had a soundness issue as a two year old in training. She had a RNA for around $65,000 early in the year and then sold later that year for $2,200. I know that her mother was unraced.

My stallion has great knees and is incredibly sound given his 28 starts. All in all, I think he has no major confirmation flaws. I have even been eventing him this past year and he is jumping 3'6" without any problems, soundness or otherwise.

If I do decide not to go with this mare, what kind of bloodlines should I be looking for to cross with Just a Devil?

Thanks again,
Shannon

[Pete]

Hi Shannon,

Just A Devil traces female tail to Lady Pitt and thus his 4th dam, Bank Of England is a half sister to the superb producer, Blitey. I'd look at her production to see how the Phipps family handled her.

Just A Devil has a lot of Hail To Reason. He has a lot of excellent influences and quality mares but his line to Lady Pitt hasn't been the most successful and productive.

Northern Dancer line mares with Bold Ruler would probably fit well and Mr. Prospector is absent but you'll need to use care not to inbreed to many of the other influences. He has several strains to La Troienne (through several ancestors) that might be leveraged here too with Buckpasser prominent on the top line to tie the bottom line.

Good luck,

Pete

[cedarbrook]

Pete,
Thank you for the advise. When you say to look at Blitey's production, should I just look at her offspring and their sires or should I check into her offspring's offspring and who they were crossed with also?
I took a quick look and there are a lot of Mr. Prospector and Storm Cat, some Danzig and Unbridled. Should I just look at the black type or do I take into account the large money winners?
Thanks again,
Shannon

[Pete]

Hi Cedarbrook,

I suggested evaluating Blitey as the most successful mare in the Lady Pitt line. You need to evaluate her production based on the quality of sires she and her daughters have been bred to (as you noted) as well as understanding that each of these successful runners would have had the best in care and training (environment).

Blitey's brood is the best that can be exected (optimal conditions). You will NOT be able to care for the mares of clients who breed to Just A Devil but you can add some value for them and yourself by having a good idea of what has been successful. Certainly Blitey is a vivid example of the difference that environment makes.

Blitey's sire, Riva Ridge, is a son of First Landing who is a son of Turn-To who is also the sire of Hail To Reason.

You may not have the freedom to pick and choose mares as you like, but you can have an idea for yourself of some pedigree aspects that you'd like to see in the mares Just A Devil breeds.

Regards,

Pete

[cedarbrook]

Thanks Pete,
I appreciate your thoughts. I will keep them in mind as I continue my mare hunting.
Shannon