Dumb Prospector Question

Understanding pedigrees, inbreeding, dosage, etc.

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ragsdaj
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Dumb Prospector Question

Postby ragsdaj » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:02 am

I have read in several places that Raise A Native should not be linebred because of the probability of passing bad ankles. I have a mare with Fappiano in her and if I select a Prospector stud even though RaN doesnt get a color next to his name he still appears twice on the progeny pedigree. Does this increase the probability of bad ankles also?

This has probably been asked a zillion times so thanks for humoring me.

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Mahubah
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Postby Mahubah » Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:27 pm

Inbreeding to any horse increases the chance that the traits of that horse are passed to the resulting foal, both good and bad.

Whether the proposed inbreeding is good or bad depends on the predominant traits of the horse being inbred to. In this case, your concern is Mr. Prospector, who passed on a lot of speed and talent but also tended to pass on small feet and a tendency to toe out. All the Raise a Native genes in this pedigree are those passed by Mr. Prospector, so it's best to look more at what Mr. Prospector passed on than what his daddy did. Exception to the rule would be if there are a lot of other Native Dancer strains lurking around in this hypo mating, since ND did tend to pass on bad ankles (which RAN inherited and tended to pass on himself).

Fappiano was not a very typical son of Mr. Prospector; he was larger and scopier than most, and many people felt he resembled his maternal grandsire, the great Dr. Fager, rather than his sire. He seems to work better in inbreeding to Mr. Prospector than most of Mr. P's other sons (that is, inbreedings to Mr. P where Fappiano is one of the Mr. P offspring involved seem better than ones where Fappiano is not present, particularly in cases where both lines to Mr. P are through sons).

That being said, the biggest determinants as to whether this inbreeding is a good idea or not are 1) the class of the prospective parents as racers or producers (inbreeding is very unlikely to redeem a mating in which both of the parents are indifferent specimens) and 2) the conformation of the prospective parents and the foals they already have on the ground. If the mare and stallion are both pretty correct and have tended to throw correct progeny in the past, I'd worry less about getting leg faults than if one or both are either crooked or tend to produce crooked foals.
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ragsdaj
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Postby ragsdaj » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:35 pm

thanks for your insight. I appreciate the ND & MP comments in relation to Fappiano. I agree with the Fager comparison also.

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Postby llbean » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:07 pm

Hi Mahubah,

Looking at the stats I find VERY strong indications that inbreeding to Mr Prospector through Fappiano works a lot at least partly because it's tried more than other forms of Mr P inbreeding.

This is an example of a self-fulfilling prophecy if you ask me as inbreeding to Mr P through Fappiano is likely occurring more precisely because of the perception that it's better due to the atypical strain theory of inbreeding.

Relative to opportunity the best way to inbreed to Mr P is through his son Gone West, whether he be atypical of his sire or not...

That being said, the biggest determinants as to whether this inbreeding is a good idea or not are 1) the class of the prospective parents as racers or producers (inbreeding is very unlikely to redeem a mating in which both of the parents are indifferent specimens)


I understand what you're saying here but in my opinion the quality of the inbred ancestor and the source of the inbred ancestor are also very important.

For instance, just becasue you have a couple of G1Ws doesn't mean you should go inbreeding to the weak part of their ancestries as you might end up doubling weak genes (I know it may sound paranoid, but even strong horses can and more often than not will have weak genes lurking in their genotypes).

-llbean
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Postby LaTroienne » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:16 pm

Agree with Avalyn.

Inbreeding does increase common traits in the inbred ancestor to pass on to their offspring, but, if you breed an uncommon specimen (like a Raise a Native line horse without crooked ankles), with a common one, chances are it'll work.

ragsdaj
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Postby ragsdaj » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:12 am

[quote="llbean"]
Relative to opportunity the best way to inbreed to Mr P is through his son [b]Gone West[/b], whether he be atypical of his sire or not...


LLBEAN can you expand on the Gone West inbreeding further? I would like to know more. Thanks