Opinions on Smoothmovinangel

[KamiBrooks]

Smoothmovinangel has been pulled from race training due to no fault of her own and won't return due to her age and total number of starts. So now I'm trying to decide what to do with her. I don't know her sire, but it seems like he was/is popular in TX. I have never looked at his sire (Woodman). Her pedigree is at:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/smoothmovinangel

She has SPR=76; CPI= 1.2; 39 9-7-5 $127,375;
2yo MSW23k winner, 3yo ALW26k winner, winner every year she started but ran mostly in the claiming ranks. She's 16h+, big bodied, good confirmation, wonderful personality. She's said to look like her sire.

1st dam
SENORA ANNE, by Conquistador Cielo. Winner at 3, $11,930. Dam of 10 foals, 8 to race, 7 winners--
SENOR AMIGO (c. by Distorted Humor). 6 wins, 3 to 6, 2006, $203,410, Texas Horse Racing Hall of Fame S.-R (RET, $60,000), Premiere S.-R (LS, $30,000), 2nd Assault S.-R (LS, $15,000), 3rd Spring S.-R (HOU, $4,400).
Gee Wally (g. by Walesa). 9 wins, 2 to 7, $103,741, 3rd KLAQ H. (SUN, $2,810).
Smoothmovinangel (f. by Holzmeister). See below.
Bankers Wish (g. by Derby Wish). 8 wins, 4 to 8, $47,905.
Miss Lee Lee (f. by Danzatore). 3 wins at 3 and 4, $22,581.
Senora Tormenta (f. by Power Storm). Winner at 2, 2006, $9,840.
El Rojo Grande (c. by Wild Zone). Winner at 4, 2006, $7,652.
Dandy Senor (c. by Danzatore). Placed, 3 to 5, $3,983.

2nd dam
Very Special Lady, by Buckpasser. 3 wins at 2 and 3, $71,560, 2nd Nursery S., Osunitas S., 3rd Fantasy S.-G1. Half-sister to CURRENT CHARGE ($96,504 (USA), Tetrarch S.-G3, etc., sire), Midway Dancer ($37,082 (USA), 2nd Premio Roma Vecchia-G3, sire). Dam of 7 winners--
VERY SPECIAL LITE (f. by Majestic Light). 9 wins, 3 to 6, $278,516, Vineland H. [G3], Bryan Station S. [L]-ncr, 1 mile in 1:33.60 (KEE, $39,408), 2nd Rachel Jackson S. [L] (DUE, $25,000), 3rd Omnibus S. (MTH, $4,950).
Dam of--
-- STRATEGIC PARTNER (c. by Kris S.). 3 wins at 2 and 3, $353,821, Crown Royal American Turf S. [G3], 2nd Jamaica H. [G2], National Museum of Racing Hall of Fame H. [G2], Jefferson Cup S. [G3], 3rd Palm Beach S. [G3], etc.
-- Victory Light (g. by Victory Gallop). 3 wins, 2 to 4, $212,594(USA), 2nd Summer S. [G2] (WO, $57,100(CAN)), 3rd Richmond Derby Trial H. (HST, $4,400(CAN)).
Mastery (c. by Damascus). 4 wins at 4 and 5, $84,200, 2nd Ark-La-Tex H. [G3]. Sire.
Senora Anne (f. by Conquistador Cielo). See above.
Lady for Two (f. by Storm Bird). Winner at 3 in England, $5,966 (USA). Dam of--
-- MY TRUE LADY (f. by Seattle Slew). 4 wins at 3 and 4, $108,724, Songstress S. [L] (GG, $32,350), Tulare Breeders' Cup S. (FNO, $23,575), 2nd Mother Lode Breeders' Cup H. (SAC, $8,000). Dam of--
---- Woodman's Lady (f. by Woodman). Unraced. Dam of--
------ Papa Sids Girl (f. by Souvenir Copy). Winner at 2 and 4, placed at 5, 2006, $135,086, 3rd Gowell S. (TP, $5,000), Oliver S. (IND, $4,922).
The West (c. by Gone West). Winner at 2 in England, placed in 1 start at 2 in France, $60,119 (USA), 2nd Prix de la Salamandre [G1], 3rd Scottish Equitable Gimcrack S. [G2]. Sire.
Noble Bride (f. by *Vaguely Noble). Winner at 4 in France, $28,675 (USA). Dam of--
-- =Baronette (BRZ) (c. by =Burooj (GB)). 3 wins at 2 and 3 in Brazil, 2nd Grande Premio 29 de Outubro [G3].
Senora (f. by Conquistador Cielo). Winner at 2 and 3, $45,525. Dam of--
=First Sera (JPN) (f. by Mill George). Unraced in Japan. Dam of--
-- =TOP COMMANDER (JPN) (c. by =Commander in Chief (GB)). 5 wins, 2 to 5 in Japan, $1,752,559 (USA), Nikkei Shinshun Hai H., 2nd Hakodate Kinen H., Tokyo Sports Hai Sansai S.
Riocita (f. by Riverman). Winner at 4, $16,500. Producer.

I'm a breed to race operation, but curious if she could potentially be used for a commercial breeding. Also, would like any (breed to race) mating recommendations for her in the $5-10k range in OH, PA, WV, KY, MD, VA region. I also need to get a rough idea of what her value might be.

Thanks for any input
Kami

[RavenSuesMom1]

Have no idea about Smoothmovingangel, but wanted to say hello from your neck of the wooods!

I'm in WV, and love racing, but am not involved (YET! When I win the lottery - I'll be looking for a partnership )

[kimberley mine]

Have a look at Kafwain and During.

[arsvcs]

Have you given any thought to Country Only (Carson City X Only Maisie by Stalwart)? Speed - Speed and more speed. Country Only is standing at Naylee Farm in WV. Visit there web site at www.nayleefarm.com and give Renee a call. I'm sure you will be pleased with the resulting foal. I know that the current breeders are extremely happy and Renee has seen several of his foals. The breeders are returning to Country Only.

[KamiBrooks]

RavenSuesMom1 -- Hi! are you near Mountaineer?

arsvcs -- I looked at him, angel is already 3x3 Mr P... something scary about going to another Mr P line stallion. A bit tempting, given their lifetime starts (both have 39), but still a bit scary. I looked at the web site and it seems to still be under construction.

Kimberley -- thanks for the recommendations. Of the two I like During the best, is there something special about sons of Cherokee Run that I should be looking at?

Thanks again for any input
Kami

[ak1]

I don't know that I'd want more Mr P added to this pedigree....

Waquoit likes returns of Turn To, usually that has been done thru Halo, however, Smoothmovinangel brings returns from other strains of Turn To as well as returns of the Man o War line via War Admiral/Buckpasser.

Gators n Bears as well as Disco Rico look intriguing to me as well.

Smart Guy could be a nice outcross...I love that Smarten blood!

[Toccet02]

is there something special about sons of Cherokee Run that I should be looking at?

No Mr. P!

[madelyn]

She is so heavily crossed Mr P and Buckpasser.. Rocking Trick would be a good outcross for her, or something like him.

[kimberley mine]

Kimberley -- thanks for the recommendations. Of the two I like During the best, is there something special about sons of Cherokee Run that I should be looking at?
Kami

Hi Kami,

Kafwain and During are a good outcross to a mare who is already 3x3 to Mr P with a lot of Buckpasser and Bold Ruler and a strain of Danzig. Runaway Groom also loves Tom Fool blood, which your mare has in profusion through two strains of Buckpasser. They are young enough that they may have some commercial appeal, assuming that hasn't been blitzed by Yonaguska.

By the way, Greensheet has a live foal season to Sky Classic advertised as "call for price." If you call and it's a price you can afford, I suggest you read my post about Sky Classic and Conquistador Cielo in the Stallions forum and then look again at him. I didn't post him originally as $12.5k is outside your stated price range. Unfortunately Sky Classic is not commercial.

[arsvcs]

Take a look at Morluc - http://buckpond.com/stallion_pages/morluc.html, he doesn't have any Mr. P.

[arsvcs]

Take a look at Morluc at BuckPond, KY - http://buckpond.com/stallion_pages/morluc.html. He doesn't have any Mr. P.

[jellac]

Kamibrooks -

Your mare has a lot of Texas connections - top and bottom. She is in my book an example of a classic "Texas Bred" racehorse - the culmination of a decade of building an industry base capable of producing such a solid runner/winner.

1st - Her Sire: HOLZMEISTER (by WOODMAN out of Harbor Club) should - IMO - be a more popular sire than his Mares Bred Reports would seem to indicate. I attribute that to the generally depressed state of the Tb breeding industry here in Texas (due to our not having slots to enhance purses while being surrounded by states that do). HOZMIESTER is a handsome, powerfully made/muscular individual and in his runners that I've seen race seems to pass that on to his foals. He's produced a good percentage of early runners/winners from relatively few foals - and a considerable number have earned BT at the regional level with some of his foals performing at the BT level on the national stage. Like I said this stallion deserves a great deal more respect/patronage than he is getting. I do think his popularity is building among breeders and if we had slots he'd be both a good deal more expensive and hard to get to. He stands at Q6 Ranch where he began his career and is now a "Proven" stallion.

2nd - DAM - I take it the dam of your mare has been bred (an probably was owned?) by Q6 her entire life as I note that all of her offspring are of stallions that stand or stood here in Texas and the database indicates that several were bred by the Q6 owners, Linda and Ken Quirk, where that data is present. Her SW son, SENOR AMIGO was also bred by the Quirks and like your mare has a doubling of the Mr. P through his sire. So that cross has been successful for this mare's immediate female family. Linda and Ken have been bringing/standing consistently decent stallion prospects in Texas for at least the last 10-15 years and have sterling reputations as good, honest and knowlegeable people to deal with (they are both vets as well). They stood LITTLE EXPECTATIONS for one year before he went to KY, for instance. Your mare's half brother SENOR AMIGO is standing his first year here in Texas I believe - advertised as the only DISTORTED HUMOR to stand in Texas, and may in fact be supported by the Quirks. I'm simply not sure about the latter one way or the other. I would also note that - per this site's db - your mare seems to have a full sib in the wings yet to race, a colt named ThreeFourFive that would be a 2YO in 2007. Did he go through the recent F-T 2YO in training sale? IF he performs well he could definitely add value to your mare/her produce. You need to find out what you can about this full sibling.

I do think it is important how you breed your mare early on in her career to assure/enhace her value as a broodmare. It would be helpful if she had an early developing runner with some possible commerical appeal right off the bat. I think that requires or suggests a proven sire for her first date rather than a prospective one who might or might not live up to/generate enough buzz to help this first foal by the time it's of race training/racing age. However with her solid female family and earnings in excess of $100K/durability on the track you might be able to negotiate a foal share breeding/lower fee for a "hot" prospective stallion you currently consider out of your range. I note that the Quirks seemed to have initially avoided the Mr. P/Buckpasser inbreeding with your mare's dam's pedigree but did inbreed/linebreed to her Native Dancer with winners/decent runners resulting. (There have always been plenty of Mr. P and RAN stallions in Texas so I do mean 'avoided' as those matings are conspicous by their absence.) I also note that her dam is inbred to Nasrullah in addition to bringing her closeup doses of Mr. P and Buckpasser to the breeding shed. I also note that most of her offspring seemed to have performed best at later stages in their careers rather than as 2YOs.. As the Quirks' have the most knowlege of this mare's immediate female family and the thought process that went into the breeding of all her half-sibs/full sibs I would suggest you give them a call at Q-6 and see what insight they might share as to the possible value/potential matings for your mare. They know more about her sire and dam than anyone else on this board.

[jellac]

Kami - a postscript to my post above, here's the link to Q-6's webpage for SENOR AMIGO -

http://www.q6ranch.com/senoramigo.htm

So he is going to get as good a start as any regionally based prospective stallion could -

Also when I stated above that the Quirks/Q6 bred and owned Senora Anne - your mare's dam - I meant to say that the Quirks/Q-6 Ranch and a preceeding Tx=based operation, Baccacita (sp?), appear to have bred her to the various stallions she's been crossed with. Derby Wish is the only one of her mates that I'm not sure stood in Texas. Senora Anne is a Va-bred from what I can tell. Reading between the lines of what data I've been able to find it appears that Senora Anne may have been purchased - in foal to Danzatore - at the "97 F-T Texas Mixed Sale, with her then 2YO colt by WALESA, "Wally Gee", who I think was on the track and racing/winning and possibally SP at the time of her sale, for $21K+. Wally Gee went on to be SP and earn well over $100k. You should be able to research her auction history including that of her foals for nominal dollars and it would be a clue as to what sort of foal - physically - might be produced from your mare. By reference: $21+k for a BM in foal to Danzatore in 1997 Texas was a very good price at auction, while that might not mean "beans" in a KY or FL breeding stock auction. Coupled with your mare and her dam's other top runner Senora Anne produced 3 foals that earned over $100K each and it appears that all her foals may have made it to the track (at least those listed in this db) and most were at least winners. She's an '88 model so could still be in production (?) - another reason to contact the Quirks and see what else might be in the pipeline of your mare's immediate female family.

Another inbreeding possiblity you might check out in your mare's dam's offspring is that of "HIGH VOLTAGE" an outstanding daughter of the US raced/based French bred AMBIORIX. This hi-quality mare appears doubled in at least a couple of Senora Anne's better performing offspring. There may be some stallions in the states you listed that afford you an opportunity to inbreed to this line while avoiding the further duplication of "MR. P" and/or BUCKPASSER. The AMBIORIX dtrs/offspring seemed to do well when bred to/crossed with sons of Bold Ruler/Bold Reasoning of the Nasrullah line and as I mentioned above there's quite a few strains to NASRULLAH in your mare, her dam and her dam's successful offspring so further back perhaps even more complementing to her breeding.

[jellac]

Here's an update to my posts above. Just read it in the latest BH magazine.

HOLZMEISTER, the sire of your mare has been sold to S. American interests for stud duty in the S. Hemisphere. I think they got a very good stallion and we'll hear more of this guy when his S. American offspring come of age.

[SemparQuel]

If you dare add some more MrP, my advice is

SKY MESA (USA) b. H, 2000 DP = 7-2-9-2-0 (20) DI = 2.08 CD = 0.70 - 6 Starts, 3 Wins, 1 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $633,076

MrP is through a female (Preach) and Pulpit
The female family reenters Busanda, through Finance, LA Mesa, LA Affirmed, Caress.

Interesting, isn't it?