FL breeders--do you like Saint Anddan?

sunday_silence · Postby **sunday_silence** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:19 pm

He's retired and will stand at Journeyman next year for $6500. Just curious what people think of him. I've seen him and he's a virtual clone of his sire, but I have no other major thoughts on him. He had some speed, which is a plus.

Foggytrip · Postby **Foggytrip** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:11 pm

Hes exactly the kind of horse that doesnt need to reproduce.

chicago78 · Postby **chicago78** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:03 am

Why would he not need to reproduce? He was a good sprinter, is standing in Florida for $6,500, and should get a very good book of mares. He started 16 times and made over $400k. He's by A.P. Indy, and thus far, his best sons at stud have been speedballs.

springboro · Postby **springboro** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:34 am

Hmmm... not sure that I agree 100% with Foggy. He is a graded stakes winner (G2), so I think he should be given a chance. What are your major objections, Fog? Perhaps conformation?

sunday_silence · Postby **sunday_silence** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:54 am

One thing I can say from having seen the horse is that his conformation is good. He was the most expensive yearling to sell at Keeneland that year, which is usually an indication that the horse looks good.

casallc · Postby **casallc** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:18 am

Foggytrip wrote:Hes exactly the kind of horse that doesnt need to reproduce.

This from a guy who has no problem with Teuflesberg as a stud @ 10K?

They both have approximately the same average earnings per start, both grade 2 winners one sells for 9 thousand as a yearling and one sells for 1.85 million in free market bidding. Sure you don't want to re-think that?

brogers · Postby **brogers** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:48 pm

I thought that he was pretty well placed in FL (but of course I am biased!). A G2 winner, fast, good looking and by AP Indy. I also thought at the fee and in comparison to some other horses retiring this year he looked very attractive.

When you look at the list below of what has already retired (and their fees), in my opinion he looks the best choice for a first season sire in Florida.

Wilko
Sweet Return
Pavarotti
Aristocrat
El Nino
High Cotton
Orchard Park
Simon Pure
Exclusive Quality
Successful Ways
Mister Fotis
Quickgoldbucks
Creator
Lively Sea Knight
Northamerican Star

sunday_silence · Postby **sunday_silence** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:35 pm

He appears to at least be the one with the best race record/pedigree combo. There are some nicely bred ones on that list, like Pavarotti and Aristocrat, but neither has a graded stakes win to his credit.

I believe that Wilko and Sweet Return are the only 2 G1 winners among the new FL sires. While I admired Sweet Return's longevity and durability, his pedigree has got to be a drawback. And Wilko....well, what can you say about him that hasn't already been said? Tough competitor, poorly managed. By Awesome Again, which is good. He was versatile. His small stature isn't going to help.

FOS · Postby **FOS** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:07 pm

hi guys

Many might agree, that who a stallion prospect is by should be taken seriously. That said...I might suggest that the same likely could (and arguably should) be said of a stallion prospect's dam's sire.

Is there (or has there been) an important racehorse sire (particularly in North America) that is (or was) out of a daughter of Danzig Connection? It's not like DC's a young up-and-comer that hasn't had an opportunity, after all...he's a foal of 1983 who (if I recall correctly) was ultimately expatriated (Italy maybe?)...hmmm.

To my way of thinking (among many considerations)...who a stallion prospect's first dam is by is extreeeeeemely important. That said, I might suggest that when it comes to Danzig Connection (as the broodmare sire of a stallion prospect, ANY stallion prospect), it might be wise to (and I would strongly recommend)...BEWARE.

Regardless...good luck to Team St Anddan and his supporters.

Respectfully

springboro · Postby **springboro** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:04 pm

ok, as a huge Dansig Connection fan (and his full brother Roi Danzig), I have to ask.... WHAT'S WRONG WITH DC as a broodmare sire?

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:51 pm

FOS wrote:To my way of thinking (among many considerations)...who a stallion prospect's first dam is by is extreeeeeemely important.

Hi FOS,

Isn't it possible that damsires can be successful based solely on the strength of the dam's female family and not on the damsire?

Case in point: Smart Strike. Smarten was (IMO) a useful sire, but wouldn't you agree that the dam family of No Class brings more to the table on Smart Strike's bottom side?

While I'm not a fan of Elusive Quality, I would argue that he's had a measure of success at stud. As much as it pains me to say, his damsire, Hero's Honor, has not been a good stallion, considering his breeding and racing accomplishments. However, the dam family of Elusive Quality descends from Natashka, who was a marvelous producer. Is it fair to say that the dam family tail brings more to the bottom side than does Hero's Honor?

I think it's reasonable to say that Turkoman was a disappointment as a sire. However, he's the damsire of Hard Spun. Would you give Hard Spun little chance of success at stud, despite the fact that his dam descends from one of Darby Dan's best families?

Regards.

casallc · Postby **casallc** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:53 am

FOS wrote:hi guys

Many might agree, that who a stallion prospect is by should be taken seriously. That said...I might suggest that the same likely could (and arguably should) be said of a stallion prospect's dam's sire.

Is there (or has there been) an important racehorse sire (particularly in North America) that is (or was) out of a daughter of Danzig Connection? It's not like DC's a young up-and-comer that hasn't had an opportunity, after all...he's a foal of 1983 who (if I recall correctly) was ultimately expatriated (Italy maybe?)...hmmm.

To my way of thinking (among many considerations)...who a stallion prospect's first dam is by is extreeeeeemely important. That said, I might suggest that when it comes to Danzig Connection (as the broodmare sire of a stallion prospect, ANY stallion prospect), it might be wise to (and I would strongly recommend)...BEWARE.

Regardless...good luck to Team St Anddan and his supporters.

Respectfully

I have rarely seen the sires dam line extolled in any sale catalog.

geowarrior · Postby **geowarrior** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:53 pm

I think Wilko is your worst value by far? $10,000? I wouldn't pay a stick of bubble gum for him. (Now watch him turn into the sire of the century just because I said that).

Mahubah · Postby **Mahubah** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:47 pm

I personally agreed with brogers when I saw the announcement on this one -- this is the best balance of racing performance, conformation, and pedigree I've seen among the new stallions headed for Florida this year. Danzig Connection was admittedly no great shakes as a sire, but Adoradancer's full sister Rare Opportunity has also done pretty well as a broodie -- to date, she has four winners from four starters including G2 winner Street Sounds and Canadian stakes winner Silver Highlight.