research request, locked horses, and RESPOND specifically

[the Ol'Line Rebel]

Hi, 1st off, I notice the link for "research request" doesn't work, at least when you're told the horse is locked. I think I've seen that before, but it seems pointless if it can't link to a real page.

2nd, I wanted to correct a horse called RESPOND. He is currently listed as a colt from 1875. I am quite confident he is a gelding of 1876 (many times in 1879 he is listed as 3yo in Krik's Guide to the Turf).

Also, would like to say he was a racer, but again, this horse is locked for God knows what reason. So, I cannot do any of this.

I've griped about locking before. I'm sure you remember. I know allegedly only Classics and some ancient horses are locked, but while those can be annoying themselves, I'm finding it more and more on random horses who cannot possibly have any reasoning for locking.

Furthermore, it is EXTRA annoying because 1 wastes some time and fingers typing stuff, then finally finds out the horse is locked AFTER GOING THROUGH ALL THE STEPS! This is ridiculous and irritating beyond belief. Shouldn't the horse flag as "locked" at least when you hit the "Edit" button? Maybe even some symbol up front on his webpage to show he's locked?

[Lucy]

Hi, 1st off, I notice the link for "research request" doesn't work, at least when you're told the horse is locked. I think I've seen that before, but it seems pointless if it can't link to a real page.

That link used to send an e-mail directly to the research group - unfortunately, it has been inactive since the database format changed a few years ago. I have mentioned it to Miles, but nothing was ever done about it.

2nd, I wanted to correct a horse called RESPOND. He is currently listed as a colt from 1875. I am quite confident he is a gelding of 1876 (many times in 1879 he is listed as 3yo in Krik's Guide to the Turf).

The American Stud Book states that he was foaled in 1875, and that his dam was barren in 1876. I would take its word in this regard, unless multiple sources confirm it to be untrue (if people have been trying to change his birth year based solely on Krik's, that would certainly explain why someone locked him). His being a gelding is never mentioned, but he was never used as a sire so it's certainly possible.

I'll put a mention of the conflicting info in his comment field, and if you have any specific info about his race record, let me know and I'll add that as well.

I know allegedly only Classics and some ancient horses are locked.

That's not true - those are the ones that you'll find locked *routinely*, but there are many other reasons, most of them having to do with tampering.

Shouldn't the horse flag as "locked" at least when you hit the "Edit" button? Maybe even some symbol up front on his webpage to show he's locked?

That's a fine idea, but not one I can help with....you'd need to contact the webmaster with the suggestion. As far as I know, no-one who works on that end of the site reads the message board, but you could try sending them an e-mail.

[the Ol'Line Rebel]

Sorry, I did mean "routinely locked" on Classics and such. Although 1 never knows for sure if the ancient horses will be locked! Mostly they are if foundations, or close to foundation.

As far as RESPOND, I can't say for sure, but he is listed 4x in the Krik's (I doubt anyone else has been using any given Krik's regularly to put in info) as 3yo. 2x in race listings (albeit the races are all ages, so that doesn't help us clinch it), 1 in the stallion produce records and 1 in the index of runners.

As far as what's listed for his races, he ran in Burlington IA in a heat match and came 2nd overall. The next day he ran a dash 3rd of 4. All mile races. Not much exciting, but that's what's there for 1879.

I'd still wonder why this horse is locked, though.

[Lucy]

Pan Zareta's our resident expert on heats & dashes. Perhaps she can flesh out this fellow's record a bit, before I start tinkering with it...

[Pan Zareta]

Pan Zareta's our resident expert on heats & dashes. Perhaps she can flesh out this fellow's record a bit, before I start tinkering with it...

Sorry, I can't add anything to his racing record, but I'm beginning to think that either Bruce or Crickmore has confused Enquirer's Responds (there are two recorded in the ASB, both shown as foaled '75 w/ dams barren in '76).

OLR, does Krik give the name of Respond's owner?

[Pan Zareta]

Lucy, if you have - or can find - a copy you might want to check Krik's 1880. Google books offers a snippet view for that edition. Inadequate, but enough to view 3 (of 10) mentions of a 5yo[sic] Respond x Enquirer, owner given variously as W.T. Johnson, E. Johnson, and W.F. Johnson & Co. The view was so 'snipped' it was impossible to tell where or at what distance the horse was racing, gender, coat color, or any information re. the dam.

An E.W. Johnson of West Burlington, Iowa bred several mares to Respond x Enquirer, as did other Iowa breeders, and breeders in western Illinois and northeastern Missouri. His daus. are entered by Bruce in the ASB 'mares under their sires' index as by Respond x Enquirer - Bonnie May x *Bonnie Scotland, an 1875 bay colt.

I'm inclined to think that the Respond racing in Iowa in 1879 was most likely the same Respond covering mares w/in a ~150 mi. radius of Burlington in the 1880's, but as to which one it was - . Normally, I'd say the ASB trumps racing rcds., but IME Bruce is not altogether reliable when it comes to midwestern sires.

[Lucy]

I don't have it, unfortunately....but as the original Respond in question is (per Krik) a gelding, and the son of Bonnie May had progeny, I had assumed we were dealing with the son of Aurora Raby. Could they both have ended up in the same region? That would, of course, confuse things even further. At least, if one was gelded, we know they didn't both stand at stud in the area....that would be a real nightmare.

[Pan Zareta]

In regard to age, both colts named Respond x Enquirer were nominated in 1876 as yearlings for the Great American Stallion S. (ref. Wallace's Monthly). Confirms foaling date as given by Bruce for the one o/o Aurora Raby.

I managed to refine snippet view search terms enough to discern that the Respond owned & raced by the Johnsons per Krik 1880 was the bay model o/o Bonnie May x *Bonnie Scotland. (Apologies to Bruce for the unnecessary criticism .)

If a/the Johnson(s) are associated w/ the Respond x Enquirer - Aurora Raby in Krik 1879, I'd say he may have erred on the identification.

[the Ol'Line Rebel]

Hi all, sorry I haven't "responded". Sometimes I just don't visit much - and we've been stricken (well, so far just husband) with horrible stomach issues this week.

I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The horse index shows RESPOND as 3yo, but the stallion produce lists show him as 4yo.

In the races, each 1 shows him as owned by "E. Johnson". Those listings show him as 3yo again.

So it's 3 to 1 "1876".

[the Ol'Line Rebel]

Also, I meant that the RESPOND in my 1879 season was exactly as the horse in this DB says - Enquirer o/o Bonnie May. I had no problem with the pedigree.

As for "gelding", it's possible it's a misprint. It's only printed once, and it's just 1 letter. They've messed up before.